Apache

Hey all,

My 2004 Civic VP has Dunlop Tires on it (I believe SP20 FE). Long story short, I got a flat and my local mechanic patched it. (I'm not sure if it was a patch or plug, but they did it from the inside. I'm pretty sure it's plugged.)

The hole was maybe 1/2" or smaller, and was more of a line than a round hole. (I'm not sure what caused it, as I never heard or felt anything while driving, but it was flat the morning after driving in a snowstorm so I suspect a sharp bit of ice, or a bit of plastic on the road). My local mechanic offered to plug it on the inside, which I accepted since I can not afford to replace my tires for at least a week or two. (Plus, the current tires have more than 1/2 tread left and aren't very old.)

But here's the catch: the tire is the front/driver side tire on a FWD car, and the damage was just at the shoulder area - it was still in between two raised pieces of tread-rubber, but just barely.

I'd like some real-world advice on this: how safe is this to drive on? I don't think I can replace the front tires until after thanksgiving, but I live on my college campus and want to go back home for the holiday. Will it be safe to drive 25-30 miles (each way) at 55-65mph? Should I stick to back roads, or not drive it at all?

Finally, I know these are supposed to last the life of the tire, but I'm a bit wary because of it's location. I know that the shoulders and sidewalls aren't supposed to ever be plugged or patched because they're softer or something. As I said, the tear was JUST at the start of the shoulder, so I'm unsure if the spot counts as tread area or shoulder.

I can take a picture later if I can find the mended tear, but my car is parked a good 20-minute walk from where I am so I can not do it right now.


(Please excuse my lack of correct terminology! I only know the basics on this sort of thing. This forum has proved incredibly useful for me in the past, and even though I don't post a lot I read a lot of threads here. Any plain-english/term-translations answers are appreciated, as I love to learn about how my car and it's parts work. )

ezone

Read what the tire manufacturer says:
http://www.dunloptires.com/en-US/services/tire-care

Does the car have a spare tire?
Is it aired to the proper pressure?
Is the jack and lugwrench in the car?
Do you know how to use them?
Can you change a flat tire by yourself?

Apache

Yes, and the tire has already been plugged since I really didn't have any other options. But what I want to know is how safe is it to drive on the repaired tire, considering it's location.

ezone

I can't SEE what you are dealing with.
I don't think anyone can accurately predict if or when something might happen.

Wait a sec, I think I'm getting something....




Nope, I got nuthin.

I STILL can't see your tire.




Seriously.

It's a risk you take.


The long and short of the situation is:
If you are scared of it, STOP DRIVING and replace it ASAP.
If you aren't scared of dealing with a flat tire on the road, then you could run it until you can afford to replace it
(or just run it until it blows).

Make a choice. Pick one.





We always tell people that tires shouldn't be repaired in high-flex areas (NO sidewall area, and not within one inch of the edge of the tread face)
We always recommend replacing a tire if it has a hole in those areas.
No tire plugs, only patching from the inside as per manufacturers recommendations. Plugs are a no-no and are for emergency use only (but they can last for years like that).

Some of the stuff we (a shop) tell you is JUST TO COVER OUR ASSES from lawsuit-happy idiots.

Reality is that it happens an awful lot, but someone smart isn't going to put their name on the line for it.
I have seen some truly scary looking "repairs" done to tires (that I would gladly let my ex-wife drive on), and they still hold air and the car owner has no clue there is anything amiss, just because it still can roll down the road.


If this was at the shop, I'd tell you to replace the damn tire just so you can't come back on me for what you perceive to be bad advice.
At that point, it is up to you to have it replaced, or keep driving on it.
(I'm not normally allowed to talk to customers, I might tell them what I really think.)

Apache

I understand that you can't see the tire, and as I said, I will get a picture of it as soon as I can. It's dark out where I live, so I can't do so until the morning.

It's not that I was given what I perceive to be bad advice - it's just that I'm getting contradicting advice. That's why I came here, the users on this forum seem to know a lot more about how this stuff works than the people I know personally.

I am replacing the tire as soon as I can afford to, I'm just not sure how reliable a patched shoulder might be: is there a high change it'll blow out as soon as I get on the highway, or IS it just something to cover your ***? That's what I'm hoping to get from this. Not "should I replace the tire," but "is it safe to make this trip before I replace it, or is there a high risk of problems?"

I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, and I will get a picture up as soon as I can.

(until then, I'd still love to hear anyone's experiences driving on a patched shoulder, if they or someone they know got it done)

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

If it was done from the inside, it was patched. Plugs are generally installed from the outside and usually don't involve removing the tire from the rim.
It may be OK to drive on short term, or it may give out tomorrow. I would move the tire to the rear assuming it has enough tread and make sure you have a good spare. Then if it does go, it will be less of a handling issue and you can change it.

I am from the off-road world and I have seen guys sew a torn sidewall together (like a 3" tear) and put some glue on it to get off the trail and get home. And I have plugged a tire having to use 3 plugs, (it was a big hole) and drive from Moab to Denver to get a replacement. It held fine.

Use your best judgement, be prepared and you should be OK.

ezone

Again, there is no way to answer this, we cannot predict the future.
There is a risk, and you must either assume the responsibility for taking that risk, or don't drive on it.

Therefore, the disclaimer about replacing it is absolutely to cover our azz, we cannot predict the future.. nor can we predict what you will do with it after you leave the shop.

I cannot, in good faith, tell you it is safe.

I CAN say "maybe", "could be", "probably", and whatever else you want to hear. I can speculate all evening long.

Are you a gambler?






A sidewall puncture repair is definitely a no-no. NO, NOT, and NEVER.

Repairs within one inch of the edge (shoulder) of the tread face are also considered a no-no, but I know they do get done.


But I have seen it done. I have seen some scary stuff done over the last 3+ decades, and people actually drive on it like they have no clue it could be dangerous.

And like Tigger said, emergency repairs can be improvised to get you out of the outback. Some are pure genius.
May not be something you would put your grandma in, but it saves your butt. Fix it right when you can.

I Krazy Glued a sidewall slash closed too.


I'm not sure about moving the tire to the rear though.
In the last few years, the lawyers all decided that the new tires must be installed on the rears so the car doesn't go into a spin or something if it blows out.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

I saw something at Discount Tire about putting new tires on the rear for traction in wet or slick conditions to prevent going into a spin on a corner.

For me personally I would put it on the rear as a blow out on the front with front drive and steering just seems like you are asking to lose control.

But I am not a lawyer or a tire engineer. Just personal opinion from past experience. And I'm crazy like that

ezone

98% of the motoring public cannot control a car under "less than ideal" conditions.
This is why there exists
ABS
Traction control
Vehicle Stability systems
Tire pressure monitors
and much more.
The same 98% would (crossing my fingers) kill themselves trying to drive something built in the 60s or prior, with no power assisted anything, not much safety anything, no airbags...and a carburetor.


How many cars do you see that stalled in traffic, and they were left in the middle of the damn road? On a hill? Because people think the brakes and steering all quit completely when the engine died.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

I guess I got lucky as my first cars in high school were a 69 mercury(tuna boat) and a 65 rustang. (though they did have seat belts) I got to learn on the prehistoric stuff. That and I lived in CO so also had to learn how to drive in the snow.

My girlfriend who grew up in San Diego is terrified to drive in the snow.

ezone

First car:
63 Bug.
No seat belts.
Single circuit brakes: Lose one, lose them all. Handbrake MIGHT save you.
Midwest Prairie snow.
No heat (almost).

First week I had my license, it broke the throwout fork.
Plenty of broken clutch and throttle cables.
Broke a shift tube hanger inside the tunnel, stuck in 3rd gear.

Figure out how to limp it home, because I can't afford a tow truck.

I was a kid, no job, plenty of time, Dad had tools and the driveway.
I learned, or I wasn't going anywhere.

Baja kit after the first year.

Must have put 50k on that car.
Drove it 300 mi each weekend while I was in school.
I took apart everything BUT the transmission, it just got another when I tore it up. (Also the only tow I had to get.)


I have a cousin that moved out there 20+ years ago, said they go apesh!t over rain too. Cousin actually lives in the Baja Peninsula now.




We get snow every year. Every year people act like it's the first time in their F***ing lives they have EVER seen snow.


All wheel go does NOT mean all wheel whoa.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

As long as it's not in the sidewalls/shoulder, you should be fine.

Just inflate, drive within safe operating conditions, and constantly monitor the tire pressure.
Spray the plug with soapy water to check for slow leaks occasionally.

I have a tire that got punctured by a 1" screw.
Went to walmart got a tire repair kit for $3.75. (Beats paying a local shop/gas station $15 to plug it; and contains 5 repairs.)
Week later, air was down to 20PSI.
Turns out, I got hit by a 3.5" nail...in the same tire!
Patched it up again with the same kit I bought the week before.

Still holds 34psi today with the two holes patched.
This was about a month ago.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention.
Don't plan to run it patched for too long, especially if there's more than 1 damage to the tire.
As long as it holds air, and you DO monitor it, and you're confident about it, just drive it until you can replace the tires.
I do have brand new rims sitting in my room, and a set of 4 new tires coming in this week.

Edit 2:
Used tires can also be an option as opposed to a brand new tire.
They will be cheaper, and possibly another route in case you're not confident it'll hold.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Plugs are now illegal in NY, if that means anything to you.

At the very least get it patched on the inside. I believe yours is, only patches are done on the inside not plugs.

ANY side wall patching/plugging should NEVER be done, and is more then likely illegal where you are.
The mechanic WOULD be liable if something happened.

I would buy a new tire ASAP if its on the sidewall, or even close to it.
I value my life more then the $100 for a new tire.

lowlife9

people from cali are funny the last time i was there i remember it started to lightly sprinkle everybody started covering there heads and running indoors like it was the apocalypse i was lke wtf are they doing.

mikey1

it all depends WHERE the patch/plug is on the tire, how big the hole was, and HOW WELL it was done!

i have plugged many tires in my day (not all my own), never had one leak any air whatsoever,

i drove one of my own cars with a plugged tire for 3 years, and another one (right now on my current car) for 2 years,

do i feel comfortable driving on the tire? absolutely, never think twice about it, but i did the job so i know it was done properly,

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Because people from Cali don't understand rain.
In an area with perfect weather, people freak out when it changes.

Apache

Yeah, that's what I plan to do. It might completely drain my bank account for a new set of 2, but I'd rather be poor for two weeks than dead! The reason I may have to wait a week or two to get it replaced is because my car insurance also happens to be due, and I won't have enough money to cover both. (Joys of being a college student: can't work enough hours to pay for big repairs, and I just drained my savings replacing the timing belt. Didn't think I'd have to make another huge purchase so soon, so poor planning on my part with this one.)


Anyway, I live in NJ. The roads in my area are all smooth, but I have no idea if plugs are legal here or not. (Roads are smooth, but my tires are filthy because my parking area gets dirt blown in almost constantly. She'll be getting a good wash when I get the tires done)

Which I think is what the mechanic did (even though he told me he'd repair it from the inside), now that I've had a closer look:








From my untrained eye, it looks like a decent-ish amount of tread left. Would it hurt my car if I bought only one tire now, and bought another one in 2-3 weeks when I get paid again? (It's FWD. Right now, the front wheels are the same and the back wheels have considerably more tread)

Two pictures of the tread, using a penny for reference since I do not have the tools to measure it to the /32":
http://i50.tinypic.com/2v0ecty.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/294pcn6.jpg

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

You can try to find a single used tire with approximately the same amount of tread left.

And yeah, that plug won't last on the shoulder there.
Try your best not to make abrupt turns.
I would get it replaced as soon as possible

Apache

I'll be sure not to do that.

I just got off the phone with a nearby STS (I can get to it in 15 minutes, but I'll have to get on a 55mph highway first..) and they'll split the cost for me: They'll order both tires to match what I have. I can get this one replaced on Saturday morning, and come back for the other as soon as I get paid again.

We're supposed to have dry weather for the next week or two, so having different tread for two weeks shouldn't be too bad, or am I wrong in assuming that? It's the exact same tire and size: Dunlop SP 20 FE, 185/70R14. I can pretty easily avoid driving it in rain or ice, which I think is the main concern about different treads.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

rubber is made using materials from living things (trees). even the syntethic ones are created based on them.

they as unpredictable as any other living things, like humans, even when brand new.

that's all that could be said. like ezone said, pick your choice and go with that just a gamble, you just need to be able to live with yer choices

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Tires have minds of their own?

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Your life is nothing to gamble with.

Like OP said earlier, rather be broke than dead.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

I will never forget years ago at a gas station I hung out at, a guy came in selling plug kits. We went out to his car and in the front passenger wheel he had punched and plugged several holes (10-15) in the SIDEWALL demonstrating his kits.

Likely a bias ply tire back then... but even still.

No plugs for me, only patch and needs to be a fair distance into tread area.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

yup, 13 year now making them :P
you wouldn't believe what they can do when you not looking :P

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Do you have to let them mature, like cheez-its?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

when they mature, they get bald :P

Gtwn-civic

When I was younger I had a dodge caravan and one tire on the front had 8 plugs, all in different places. Drove like it for 6 months before it let go. One of them was out farther than what yours was. I wouldn't drive on something with that many plugs in it now. That tire should be good temporarily until you can replace it, just don't take my word on that!

mac25

first of if you are driving on the repaired tire, rotate it to the rear, so your driving and steering ability is not at risk. at my shop we do this for free with a tire repair.

secondly i drew you this diagram.

s4boost

bro. new tires man

david5300

It is completely safe but only if you are using it on a push cart . Nothing that moves it with a motor.