Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

This is an alteration to Grey's DIY. It was useful, but if your brakes are like mine... totally uncooperative, then this is your DIY.
You need:
--2 new rotors, 4 new screws (hope the rotors come with them, they're 6mm if they don't, but have a non standard head)
--A set of front brake pads
--Anti-Squeal goo
--Brake cleaner
--Brake fluid
--WD-40 type stuff
--2 8mm bolts
--A power drill capable of drilling through metal (I'd say 14.4V cordless or more, or get a corded drill)
--Assortment of drill bits smaller than 1/4" (HSS is fine, Tungsten Carbide is better)
--17mm socket
--10mm wrench
--8mm wrench
--2' of 1/4" OD flexible tubing
--1 empty deli salad container
--1 funnel
--lots of towels
--4 jackstands
--1 jack
--ball of string or wire
-- 4" C-Clamp
-- Torque wrench
--Breaker bar (for wimps only)

Now, it seems like a lot of ****, but take my word for it, you need it all, so just make one trip the hardware store, and not 3 like I did. That just wastes time when you could be beating up the car.
Now keeping in mind that this is the thread for those already pissed off that nothing works, we're going to skip all conventional methods and move straight to destruction. But PAY ATTENTION. Somethings you can destroy, others you can't because you have to reuse them.
Put your safety glasses on, here goes.
Remove the caliper by removing the 2 17 mm bolts on the back of the hub. This is where the wimps need the breaker bar. Bottom one first, tie the caliper to the spring. Undo the top one. I found it useful to rest the caliper flat on the jack foot rather than letting it hang. It also makes me feel better than letting the brake line flop around. Remove the outer pad by pushing inward, it'll just slip out. The shim behind the pad comes with it, save that, you need to reuse it. Then take the C-clamp and push the piston back in by clamping the back of the piston cylinder and the face of the OLD inner pad. Once done, remove the inner pad. Clean the whole thing with brake cleaner. Apply antisqueal goo to the BACKING PLATE of the new outer pad and a little on the back of the inner pad. Follow the directions on it, mine said to wait 10 minutes for it to tack up. Then put the shim on the outer pad, press them together and wipe away excess goo. Then put a little goo on the back of the shim and put the new pads in the caliper, inner one first. Set the caliper aside for a minute. Now... the stupid rotor. Forget saving the screws. Get out the drill, start with a 1/8" or so bit, go about 1/4" straight into the center of the screw head. Its important you center it, this is your pilot hole for later. Then keep increasing the bit diameter until the head breaks off. You should be able to pull the rotor off. If you can't, you'll notice there are 2 threaded holes at 90 degrees to the screws. Put an 8mm bolt in each one, then turn them in and you can press the rotor off the hub. You may need to do this if the rotor is rusted on. If you don't feel like buying 8mm bolts, then the ones that hold the brake line to the strut happen to be the right size. Now that the rotor is off, put the 1/8" bit back in and drill all the way through the remaining screw stub. Don't drill the hub though, just hit the screw. Thats why being straight was so important. Somewhere along the way, you'll hog enough of it out that the drill will snag and turn the stub out the back of the hub plate. No more screw and the hub is still fine.
Clean the hub with brake cleaner and some WD40. Put the new rotor on after you've cleaned it with brake cleaner, use 2 new screws. They're not really necessary, the wheels (well, the lugnuts) hold the rotor on, but they're for piece of mind. I put a dot of Loctite BLUE (NOT RED) on them just to be sure, and FYI, heat releases loctite... for those of you who have a propane torch but never get to play with it. Then put the caliper on. The pads should be spaced enough if you depressed the piston all the way back in.
Torque the 2 caliper bolts down to 170 N-m or 125 ft-lbs... which ever you want.
Rinse and Repeat for the other side

Bleeding
This is the other part... this hasn't been covered I don't think.
Jack the whole car up... front and back. Pull all 4 wheels. Locate the bleeder valves. On the fronts they're on the top of the piston housing towards the back side of the caliper. On the drums, they're inconveiently located right under the upper control arm bushing. Why Honda put them there, I don't know... you can't get to them easily and its a pain. Second bitching point, you need a 10 mm wrench for the front, 8mm for the rear. Again... why can't we standardize these things? Its not hard. I thought the Japanese were effeciency experts.
Anyways... you go with the one farthest from the Master Cylinder first. So right rear. Put the 1/4" hose over the end of the bleeder after removing the cap, aim the other end into the deli container, get someone to depress the pedal, crack the bleeder, close it, then release the pedal. You don't want to put the pedal to the floor... just about 75%. All you want to do is blow fluid through the system. Do it a couple times, then add more fluid to the reservoir. It is wise to use a different color fluid like ATE Superblue because the color changes when all the old stuff is flushed out. ATE also sells Type 200 Gold... which is Superblue but gold in color.
Bleed until you've got clean fluid and no air, Right Rear, Left Rear, Right Front, Left Front, make sure the reservoir is topped off (the MAX line), close it and put the wheels back on. Put the car down.

Bedding pads
"Bedding" pads into the rotors is done so you can transfer some of the pad material onto the rotor surface to increase the effectiveness. It also lets the pads work their way into the rotor surface much like piston rings do to the cylinder walls during break in.

This is just the most common method, it seems to work pretty good. You'll want to find some empty stretches of road to do it...
Accelerate to 50 mph, then apply the brake gently. Not just a barely touched it, but don't slam them. 40-50%. Go down to about 10 mph, repeat 4 or 5 more times. Then drive for 10 or so minutes and let everything cool down. If there's traffic lights, there's not much you can do, but see if you can just coast to them and not have to stop. Then run the car to 50, stop hard 5 times, 80% braking, down to about 10 mph. Then drive for 10 or 15 more minutes and take it back home. Let them sit and cool off, make sure everything is good.
At this point, unless you messed up, you're done. Be nice to the pads for 200-400 miles depending on how much stopping you do. This just makes sure they're broken in and worn into the rotors before you really rag on them. Then have at it.

tfnaaf

iTrader: (2)

tfnaaf

iTrader: (2)

A few other things i wanted to add reguarding bleeding. You should first suck out all the old brake fluid from the master cylinder and install new fluid. When you get to the bleeding part you will see the difference in old to new fluid while bleeding even if its not a tinted color of fluid

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

can you post some pictures of all of this, I am still trying to learn how to do all of this.

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

If I am only changing my fron pads, do I need to bleed all 4 brakes, or can I just bleed the front 2?

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

You should bleed all 4. The brake lines criss cross the car, so if there's a bubble, you stand the chance of just moving it from the front to the back if you just bleed 2.
I have no in progress pics, my hands were filthy.

GaryC17

There's this thing called the "no return valve" which attaches to the bleed valve. All you have to do is pump the brake pedal without needing to loosen and tighten the nut countless times. Not sure if it's easily obtainable at the hardware shop in USA.

WD40

iTrader: (1)

You can get this one man bleeder kit at Napa for $5. I used that kit when I accidently got air in my lines. It works great.

macrossranma

iTrader: (1)

just one question, that thin metal sheet that is suppose to put on top of the pads, its it ok to NOT install it?

thanks

civicfreak84

this is awesome but I didn't understand something you mentioned about pressing the brake and making it bleed...no about the crack the bleeder. what is that? i thought once you removed the line from the caliper or the rear brakes the think starts bleeding?

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

so....we are allowed NOT to re-use the two screws on that rotors?

or...DO we have to buy new screws and re-install them again?

cos i think it's really a pain in the neck............

civicfreak84

oh yea that too

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

you can reuse those screws, most time when you buy new rotors, they give you new bolts. Like someone else said, those bolts are just there for when they assemble your car, it holds the rotor on when moving down the assembly line. When you put your tire on, the wheel holds the rotor on.

Shlomo

iTrader: (1)

tfnaaf, so your supposed to suck out all the fluid from the MC before starting any of the bleeding steps? you then add new fluid to the MC, then start the bleeding process? can a turkey baster be used to suck out the old fluid from the MC?
i just got done changing the rotors and pads and now i just have to change the fluid. thanks.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

Turkey baster works... a grilling marinade syringe works better because the tip is smaller and you can hook a small rubber tube to it. Thats what I used, but yeah, a turkey baster is fine.

Shlomo

iTrader: (1)

awesome, thanks for the quick response. i'll hopefully finish up tommorow.

rijowysock

iTrader: (21)

well ima be doing my brakes feb 15th so wish me luck i think i got it pretty much down for now..

only thing is my brakes have 4 bleeder valves.. so i guess i bleed each one..

orion_squall

hi, my dealer do break fluid change for cheap (35$), I wonder if a break fluid change infer that bleeding is done as well? because by changing the break fluid, you basically are doing a bleeding too?

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

You change the fluid by bleeding the lines until its clear fluid.

skarteez

oooo nice writeup. did you remember thosemeasurements byany chance? hehe

orion_squall

Hi,

Therefore break fluid change= complete bleeding, so that if you do break fluid change it means bleeding is also done.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

Suck the MC dry with a turkey baster or BBQ marinade syringe (something with a large capacity reservoir and suction, those are the 2 readily available things I can think of). Pour new stuff in, bleed brakes and continue to add new fluid to the MC as you go.