mililani

Again, thanks for the responses! I'm thinking of just going OEM. Also, I'm confused. When you guys are talking about bleeding the brake fluid, is that different than a brake flush? I'm at 110k miles. I think I need to flush the old fluid.

Mad Dog Tannen

You should always get your rotors/drums resurfaced when changing the pads/shoes! Because the pads/shoes seat to the rotor/drum. That's why you take it easy after a brake change. You will not get good contact and can get hot spots on your rotor if you put flat/new pads on a worn rotor. It can also cause warping and overheating. I used to just change the pads and not resurface but I learned better after ruining a few sets of brakes. Just my .02

MelJ

I didn't know there was such a thing as a flush. You're pushing the air out of the system, but you need to keep refilling so the reservoir doesn't run dry and add even more air, so I guess they're pretty much the same(You'll have pretty much all brand new fluid). Remember, you must do this after the change.
Mad Dog, where would you suggest getting the rotors resurfaced? I don't trust Pep Boys for anything after they forgot to put the drums back on my old car and tried to deny it.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Bleeding brakes clears the old fluids in the lines (Fluid from resevoir goes to brake lines, new fluid in resevoir)
Brake flushing clears the old fluids in the lines + resevoir (All new fluids)

My mechanic says he'd do rotor resurfacing for 175 for all, including new brake pad install

Go to a reputable shop that has a BBB cert

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

with a brake fluid flush you can let all the brake fluid drain out if you want. the system can go dry that is fine as long as you don't go out driving on a dry system lol. I had had my whole brake system completely drained out a couple of time. Usually when I am doing a lot of brake work like changing out the hard lines and pulling the abs unit out of the car.

as long as you fill it back up with fluid and go and bleed the whole entire system after you have filled it you will not run into any problems.

or you can just pour more fluid and pump out the old.

If you are going to flush the whole system i would highly recommend bumping up to motul RBF 600 factory line it is about $13-$15 a pint but it is really great fluid.



and you do not want to go easy on the brakes when you just stick the on you want to follow standard bed in procedures that does not mean getting on them as hard as possible and glaze them over

here is how you bed the pads

Pad Bedding:

The bedding process is the final "heat cure" for the pads. This final bedding cure differs from an oven heat cure in such that the oven heat cure does not include the pressure, torque, and elevated surface temperatures that are necessary to properly condition the pad for service. As it is with the rotors, new pads must be gradually brought up to temperature and then slowly cooled. If the pads are put into hard service right from the start, damage from fractures or accelerated deterioration due to extreme temperature variations between the surface and the body of the pad can occur. Overall poor performance with the potential for rotor damage are often the results.

Bedding Steps:

Once the brake system has been tested and determined safe to operate the vehicle, follow these steps for bedding of all pad materials and rotors.

1. Begin with a series of 8-10 light stops from approximately 30 MPH down to 15 MPH allowing 20-30 seconds for cooling between each stop.

2. Progress to series of 8-10 moderate stops from around 45 MPH down to 30 MPH allowing the 20-30 second cool down period between each stop.

3. Proceed with a series of 8-10 hard stops from 55-65 MPH down to 25 MPH allowing 20-30 seconds of cool down time between each stop.

4. Drive at a moderate cruising speed, with the least amount of brake contact possible, until most of the heat has dissipated from the brakes. Avoid sitting stopped with the brake pedal depressed to hold the car in place during this time. Park the vehicle and allow the brakes to cool to ambient air temperature.







And here is what will wood says about turning down rotors

Q: Should rotors be turned before replacing brake pads or after a set amount of road service?

A:


Not if they are still serviceable. In fact, the best way to bed your new pads is with a rotor that has already been bedded. The rotor is basically the radiator for your brake system. The larger the rotor for any given design, the better it cools. Each time you turn a rotor, you remove material; therefore, you remove some of its ability to cool. You should regularly inspect your rotors for conditions such as cracks or excessive wear and immediately replace then if they are defective or out of tolerance.




also look at the cost of turning down a rotor vs buying one $5 to $10 more for a new rotor whats the point of turning one then

MelJ

Wow dude. Thanks for that. Nice to see a good crowd of peeps on here compared to a lot of the other sites I've been to. Bunch of a-holes.

mililani

Yes, much thanks! So, I took a look and the rotors still look good. After much hemming and hawing, I decided to go with el cheapo brake pads. I figure I probably only got 50-60k left on the car, and I'm not a fast driver.

I'll do the brake flush later next week. Again, much thanks for all the info.

Vman455

Don't you have to bench bleed the master cylinder if it runs dry? My last two cars this was specifically stated in the factory service manual (Dodge).

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

it would be recommendable.
Bomerman, don't worry, this is just a small part of your reply!

mililani

So, finally did the front disc pads. Kinda pain in the ***. One of the bolts on the calipers was spinning and spinning forever. I finally realized there is a washer on the other side that needs to be clamped down to get the bolt off. Other than that, pretty easy, although I don't want to do it again.

Instead of bleeding/flushing the brake fluid, I'm thinking about doing a sort of drain and refill. I was thinking about draining the brake fluid reservoir and refilling with new brake fluid several times. After removing the super tight lug nuts and jacking the car, I don't want to do that again for each tire. Any thoughts?

02civicsi02

It is recommended to bench bleed the cylinder if it goes dry. Its like when you get a new master cylinder before you put it on you have to bench bleed it. Plus when you let the cylinder go dry and the lines it is almost like impossible to get fluid thru there cause there will be no pressure in the pedal.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

Bench bleeding is recommended but the thing is you never really run them completely dry cause you can't get every drop out of them with out pulling them off. So I never bother with it especially when you are at the track and completely and you have to flush the whole system on a miata and there is really not the time or place to pull it off and bench bleed. and even if it gets completely dry when you pour the fluid in the top you end up with a high low difference in pressure so getting the master cylinder to draw isn't really a problem at all. especially with as thick as brake fluid is.

so bench bleeding not really necessary IMO

mililani

One other thing. After 110k miles, my brake pads still had a lot of padding left. This is an old one compared to a new one:

http://imgur.com/SCEAr.jpg

At the rate the old brake pad worn down, I probably had another 60k miles before the indicator hits the rotor. Anyone ever see a brake pad last that long? I guess that's a testament to my conservative, slow *** driving. Haha.

Also, my rotors were flat, and there was no indication of material loss. But, there were a lot of these scratches:

http://imgur.com/DolYk.jpg

Is that ok?

So far, new brakes are working like a charm. Brake pedal doesn't travel nearly as far as before before braking occurs. I didn't use brake compound and no squeaks or squeals. Stoked.

Mad Dog Tannen

Brakes are the subject of much debate, myths and rumors. I disagree that a worn rotor is better for seating. I have done it before with bad results more than once.

Just remember that cheap brakes can be made of cheap material that may not dissipate heat as well. Also they often have poor venting compared to other brands.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

that is not really true some of the worst rotors I had to deal with were the $80-$100+ cross drilled rotors.

me and a bunch of the OG's in the DC area many of whom pioneered the 7thgen community especially in the way of the turbo tested and tried pretty much every rotor combo out there for the 7thgen. and the best overall in performance, wear, and price that we found is the advanced autoparts Beck/Arnley blank rotors; they are about $25 a rotor. they hold up against almost everything you can throw at it and when I talk about beating on it, I'm talking full track pads (blue's, cobalt's, hp10's) with a full beat down on a couple of 200+ hp turbo cars. on the street you just don't make a dent in them. they are retardedly hard to warp compared to everything else we tested. and they just last we almost never have to change rotors and the only time we do is after a number of very viscous track days up at summit point.

and we have tried almost everything including messed around with some floating hat rotors from willwood. And the beck/arnley is thick, heavy and it last best rotor and it cost nothing and some places like autozone or advanced also give you a lifetime warranty with it so if you crack it or warp it you can get a free one to replace it. so we buy a set and never have to worry about again. easy and cheap.

and worthless to turn down (even though you almost never need to) cause if you have the warranty they will give you a new set for free

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Wow, for 110k Miles, that's a lot of pad left
I have 50k Miles and i have about half that :X

I think the scratches are normal if you leave the car outside
Brakes rust + usage = fine scratches
If it's kept indoors more often, it would be more shiny and polished

mililani

^^ Ah, ok, good to know.

Yeah, I'm thinking it must be the way I drive. Around 80k miles, I took the car in to get the tires replaced. I asked the service tech to look at the front pads and asked him if they needed replacing. And he was like, "wow, they look almost brand new. Do you even brake on the car??"

Anyways, I think it's interesting to note this whenever someone asks about brake pad change intervals. I guess it really does depend on the driving and driving style.

Mad Dog Tannen

I agree that cross drilled are s**t, but that's a whole other topic.

And I am not saying that cheap rotors are bad either. I am simply saying that good cooling relys mainly on good metal and proper venting. If cheap rotors have that then you are set. Lets not turn this into a who has more experience heresay argument.
I have probably caught more brakes on fire than anyone I know, so I think know a little about durability and quality. I have had 2 turbo eclipse's and a butt load of other cars that have had way over 200+ hp (as if hp has much to do with breaking). I have had advance rotors with race pads as well, and I caught them on fire 2 times on my 93 Regal GS warping the rotors and glazing the pads. I am not trying to argue but I don't think you were really punishing them like I do.

I say turn em or get new ones, what ever is cheaper. If your not putting them through a lot if abuse then get cheapies. Cross drilled=bad. Slotted=good.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

I was probably gonna quote that techy word for word

Brake pad/Engine oil/spark plugs and everything else is a "Generic" interval that should be changed
Of course if you have bad driving habits, you might want to change these earlier, if you have good driving habits, you can change them later

Thats why some people change oil every 3000 miles, and others can go up to 10k miles (also depends on oil quality as well)

-----
on a side note, i think what mad dog was saying that
If it costs 100 to turn the rotors, and 115 to buy new ones, might as well just spend the extra 15 bucks to get new ones (especially those that have lifetime warranty)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

no need to defend you, i see!

Wargostyle

I don't wanna be a total devil's advocate, but on my 93 del sol, I wore my last set of pads down to the screws and had some serious scratches/gouges in the rotors. To save money I just replaced the pads, cleaned up everything, bled the air and now after like a year the rotors are smoooooth. No pedal vibration, no squealing, no pulsing of the pedal. There's a little bit of a lip. My thought was that ill just let the new pads(semi-metallic) just kinda turn the rotors for me. Might wear down the pads a little quicker initially, but seriously, they feel perfectly normal.

Silver02EX

iTrader: (3)

Most places around where I live will run a special for $88-$90 per axel to replace the brakes and flush the fluids. I have no problem replacing the brakes in my Civic but I will take it to a shop and have the system flush for about $30.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

.......
Sorry.... I just had to ask....Why?

It takes about 10 minutes, a friend/family member, and 5 bucks worth of brake fluid to do it yourself

Take off rims,
pump brakes, loosen bolt, tighten bolt, repeat several times
refill resevoir
do the same for the other side

Honestly, if u didnt have to take off rims, it takes less than 5 mins each side
Im sure u can find someone to waste 30 mins of their lives :3