xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I had a spare engine, so I harvested the head from there. I took the head off, took it to a machine shop, and the dude was like "Holy ****.. this thing has GOT to have less than 500 miles on it!"

He checked it out and said it could use some cleaning.. Either he could hot tank it for $30, or I can do it for hella cheaper with some brakleen from autozone. Dude was badass.. haha

and dude, you have NO idea about that nut.. I tried using some neodimyum magnets on the outside of the pipe, a magnet on a string, dropping it into the downpipe (the pipe itself wasn't magnetic), but nothing.. I was SO pissed I had to take the downpipe off.. and it was 11:30PM when I did that, too.. So I was tired and cranky and ****.. lol

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

lol, my dad was freakin when he saw smoke coming from my car when I started it up. I had to explain that it was water in the assembly lube steaming off

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Haha it freaked me out pretty good too... but I also started the car with the downpipe not connected yet. The two bolts that go inside the springs were so rotted out I didn't dare use them again, and I wanted to make sure the car was going to start. Funny thing is I didn't even have a check engine light when I fired it up, with my downpipe not connected lol.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

First post updated. Feel free to help me make it better

JBS36606

xRiceBoyx,
I noticed above you mentioned a "valve spring compressor" in your parts list. What did you use it for? Do you need it just to replace the head gasket?

When replacing the gasket, did you need to pull off the cam pulley or did you leave it on the head when you removed it?

Tbohar,

You discussed cleaning the mating surfaces above. Do you have a procedure for that? It would not be obvious to me to use sandpaper. I just do not want to make mistakes.

Thanks for all the help in advance.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I pulled my head apart to clean it (taking valves off). I did that because solvents would normally eat through non-metal parts (like the inside of the valve seals). Plus, if you buy the gasket kit from honda, they give you valve seals, and you have to take it apart anyways to replace those.

I took the head to a machine shop, and the guy checked to see if it was warped, then told me he could either charge me $30 to clean it, or I could buy some brakleen at autozone and do it for cheaper. I opted for that route, then rinsed with some distilled water, then let it dry overnight.

As for the cam pulley (gear, rather), if you want to replace your cam seal, you have to take it off. If you're content with leaving the old cam seal on, then you don't have to. if you take the rocker assembly apart, it'll come off with the cam.

Honestly, I'd take the head (and maybe block) to a machine shop for resurfacing before you slap the new gasket on there. They'll make sure the mating surfaces will make a good seal with that head gasket

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Josh on everything there. I didn't have the option to take the block to the machine shop because the engine was still in the car and it was in my driveway so I opted for the route my mechanic friend gave me. Which is a VERY FINE GRIT SANDPAPER. It's DEFINITELY NOT ideal and not the best way to do it but I chose to take the risk . I basically used 2000 grit sandpaper and a flat piece of wood ( a 2x4 ) and ran it across the block until all the old gasket was off. The problem I ran into was the cylinder walls are lower than the rest of the block so I got a smaller piece of wood and carefully and evenly sanded down the top of the cylinder walls. Again, not ideal. It did however work, I don't have a leak any more. I don't recommend this way, the actual absolute best way to clean the cylinder block/head is with a die grinder and an aluminum safe PLASTIC attachment. Most people don't have these and if they do don't use them very often. The plastic will be white and I tried but couldn't find a picture of it. It cleans all the crap off but does not harm the aluminum. I also didn't replace the cam or valve seals. I only had 80k on my car when I replaced the head gasket.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

On Monday or Tuesday (or possibly next weekend). I'm going to make a non-comprehensive head gasket DIY. Josh, did you take any pictures? I sure as hell didn't I do have something planned instead of pictures though.. but I'd like to have the real deal if you got any

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I have a disassembled spare engine. I can prolly half-*** assemble it to hook you up With engine disassembly pics.

Edit: there arent gonna be any belts though.. And maybe some missing bolts here and there

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Well I plan to use the Honda manual to put most of the DIY together... so a random pic here and there would be great. I might get you to go underneath the hood of your car and possibly take some pics too unless I can steal them from here... The reason I'd get you to do it is cuz its FREEZING here

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

darnit...
i was just checking the kit... no camshaft plug there... hope they have in the dealer...
Stage 1 is here too.

Soo, it seems i will need:
91213-P2F-A01 OIL SEAL (29X45X8) (ARAI)
11833-PLM-000 RUBBER, L. BACK SEAL
11832-PLM-000 RUBBER, R. BACK SEAL
12513-P72-003 PLUG, CYLINDER HEAD
dang...

kinakoes2

Forums seriously need some Like buttons... this thread is like gold to a D17 owner...

BTW... as a tech some basics can really help on big jobs where you have to keep track of a lot of parts (I've had many, many sportbike motors out of the frame and down to the crank, parts strewn over two benches like a Terminator eating a pipe bomb...) :P

-- safety glasses have saved my eyes from grinders, drills, hot bolts, oil, battery acid (scariest by far), exploding ATV tires, and other techs who like to talk and walk backwards with tools in their hands. USE THEM...
-- always, always, always have a magnet on a stick handy.
-- when possible, do your work over a drip tray (those big sheet metal cookie trays). Not only will your floor stay cleaner... but you can hear when you drop a fastener.
-- buy some muffin trays at a dollar store for a buck each and use them to document your job re: fasteners, grommets, etc. When done, all you have to do is work backwards.
-- another trick and cheap way to organize fasteners is to take cardboard from a box and a sharpie, and poke the bolt through the cardboard, with a scribble note on what it's for. This way you can return bolts to the holes they came from, washers and nuts as well. In powersports wrenching I used them a lot for engine and clutch covers.
-- Use a digital camera to document how things went together, if you think you'll have a hard time remembering later. This has saved me many, many times -- esp when the FSM doesn't have enough detail on a crucial step and you're sucking wind...
-- When you actually working on the vehicle is when a paper FSM is superior to a PDF -- because you'll have greasy fingers. One solution to this (since the Honda FSM is a bill or more) is to use a stylus on your smartphone or tablet.


General tips for home wrenches:

-- Invisible Glove. Get it. Use it. It works.
-- First time to do *any* job will be 1.5x - 2x the time vs. the second, just because of familiarity. The margin is even greater with complex jobs like a head gasket, clutch/trans or anything under the dash.
-- Give yourself more time than usual if you've never done a complex job. Your brain likes to shut down and give as few f***s as possible, when your engine is exploded all over your garage, and the g/f is expecting you to take her to the airport in two hours.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

That's what the rep button is for

Anyways, lots of great, invaluable info in that post of yours. I'll add it to the original post in one form or another when I get to a computer.

kinakoes2

Ah, that's a relief! I'm not seeing where that is right now (maybe viewing with my adblocker needs a tweak), but no worries -- if it's expected of me to use common sense and find it in plain sight, that's done and done.

EDIT: Duuuurrr -- never mind, found it! And will use it.

Marooka

So I was searching for the aluminum-safe white plastic attachment for my die grinder and couldn't really find it. Instead, I happened to come across this:

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Do-not-use-g...5686042/g.html

Your thoughts?

Also, do you know where I can find/buy the attachment if it's in fact harmless? I found this, but it looks like it only comes in a box of 10 and seems pretty pricey:


Thanks,

Mark

bigjonbird

You don't have to buy the special crankshaft holder tool. All you need to do is take the starter off and have your buddy wedge a big screw driver or crow bar in there to keep the fly wheel from turning over.

wingsfan19

Haha, I love the part about dropping stuff into bad places or missing a step/part when reassembling. I thought it only happened to me!

The idea of putting the bolts and screws into a piece of cardboard and labeling them is awesome.

Beardman

Question, why aren't head bolts on the list? New bolts not needed??

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

nope
they are called studs and they don't stretch

Wakko

I came here to ask the same question, lol. The tensioner bolt (newer longer one) should also be replaced with the tensioner, from what I read here.

What sensor seals should be replaced? My oil pump is leaking like crazy, so I'm trying to do everything all at once and be done with it. I'm at 113k miles. Is oil pan difficult to do at this point too?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I didn't see Wakko's reply until just now. I know about 5 months late to a response, but I can still provide valuable information for those just stumbling upon this thread.

Sensor seals, I didn't replace any unless they were a) included with the kit (none, unless you count the EGR valve gasket) or b) showing signs of wear (none did). Any sensors you'll have to remove in the process are purely mechanical in nature and do not come into contact with fluid systems (in particular, TDC and CKP sensor). Oil pressure sensor is on the backside of the engine and you shouldn't have to touch it. I think the seal on that is an o-ring, if any. Coolant sensors can stay in their respective housings and you shouldn't have to touch them, either.

Oil pan gasket is easy to do, and you can really do that at any time, even during an oil change. You will have to at remove the downpipe to get the pan out, so those gaskets you may have to worry about, too. Just a doughnut gasket between the manifold and the downpipe, and a carbon impregnated gasket for the mid-pipe connection. I don't have experience tinkering with a D17A1, but if logic serves me right, undo the manifold/cat connection (I think it's a doughnut gasket, too) and maybe a rubber hanger and move it out of the way to create clearance.

More on the oil pan gasket, though. On the D17A2 (US EX/Canadian Si trim level), the gasket is simply a bead of RTV along the perimeter. on the D17A1 (DX/LX trim level), the gasket is a physical removable gasket. On the -A2, make sure you get a vast majority of the old gasket material removed to ensure a good seal. I know it's RTV, so it'll conform to various imperfections, but better safe than sorry. A razor blade does well for this.

I reused the tensioner/bolt when I did my head gasket because I did a timing belt not too long before the head gasket went out. Just make sure everything is torqued properly.

I used crowsfeet extensions, and there was a small debate on how much extra torque was being added by the 1.5" change in torque wrench "length" with the addition of the crowsfoot, so I'll add another tidbit of LPT-ness here. With the addition of a crowsfoot, you may subconsciously think, "put this thing on in line with the lever of the wrench." I know I did when I first started using them. My **** retentive nature kicked in and it bugged me if the damn thing was even a degree off from straight. However, by way of fancy maths, you'll actually be increasing the torque applied to the fastener. Instead, position the crowsfoot extention at a 90-degree angle to the wrench, and it'll negate any length you add. I actually learned this tip while gunsmithing, and I didn't want to overtorque the barrel nut on my AR15 while adding a barrel nut wrench on the end of my torque wrench. After some extensive searching, found a video where they demonstrate this using a Snap On Tools torque wrench calibration machine (video linked below). putting a short extension on the end of their torque wrench added 25% applied torque, whereas positioning the extension at a 90-degree angle to the torque wrench made it read true to the micrometer torque wrench click.Crowsfoot/extension use with a torque wrench

Also found this while searching for the above video, with regards to extensions and ratcheting socket wrenches. While extensions themselves did not change actual torque values, u-joint extensions did. They demonstrate both by first adding 30" of extension to show no applied torque difference while using counter force on the socket wrench, but the u-joint extension at severe angles decreased applied torque by a considerable amount (20-40% decrease in applied torque)

metalhed454

There's no mention of the other cam seal, the one on the passenger side.

metalhed454

Never mind. It's just a cap with an O ring in it. A common place for leaks. Mine leaks at 155k miles. I'm swapping out my D17A2 with another. Head gasket is going and burns oil. One item I'll replace on newer motor along with all of the seals, etc.
12513-P72-003
Plug, cylinder head
$7

Wildcat445

OK, here's a tough one. The exhaust manifold nuts are rusted to where they are no longer their original size. So, any socket I have will not work on them--I've tried. I did get a nut remover set (which supposedly "bites" into the nut), but it worked out that the smallest remover was still too large, plus they were shallow, and the stud sticking through made it almost impossible to catch with a ratchet.

Ideas on how to get those out? Am I right in thinking that these are nuts mounted on studs vs. being actual bolts? At 14 years old, I think anyone attempting to do a cylinder head in the Rust Belt states is going to encounter this.

Also...I purchased a rebuilt head. Do I still need to send it to be machined for flatness, or should I be OK? (I'm just wondering if anything changed in shipping.)

BrotatoChip

Also in the rust belt here. What I have done in the past is just put a pair of vice grips on it, usually does the trick for me. Doing this will destroy the nut but I'm going to go ahead and assume you planned on replacing them anyways.

Yes, they are just nuts and studs. The other end of the stud also has threads attaching it to the head. Sometimes the stud will come out with the nut, sometimes it won't.

Colin42

hammer a smaller socket on it, usually the imperial size works nicely.
and i would get the new head checked for flatness, unless you trust the seller,
also check that everything is assembled correctly, nuts/bolts tight, valve clearances, etc

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I'm with brotatochip on this one: pair of vice grips and destroy the bolts/nuts. Buy a set of grade 10.9 bolts to replace them all and call it good.

As for rebuilt head and checking for flatness, I always follow "trust but verify." Have a shop check it and if it's good to go, carry on. I know the shop I frequent wouldn't charge me just to measure it, only if they had to mill it.

BanoOmg

Hey Riceboy (or anyone else with the knowledge):

Is that honda gasket kit just the 31 items you listed in the first post?
​​​​​​​
If so, it's a LOT cheaper to buy the parts individually than as the kit. $191.33 for the kit, or $134.78 for the parts not as a kit.
I'm going to order the individual parts, and hope it doesn't bite me in the booty because I left something out. I searched part-by-part on three websites though, and got the 31 items each time.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

well, I'll be damned, seems as if it's about $100 cheaper to order each item individually from Majestic Honda. Cheaper shipping, too. To my knowledge, that's all that's in the kit. IIRC, I wrote out the "parts included" list as I was staring at the bags that came in the kit

Hopefully someone can verify. I haven't looked at a 7thgen HG kit since October, and at that point in time, I was more worried about getting it all put together than paying attention to what was in it.



edit: I added your tidbit of information to the initial post with a "do it at your own risk" disclaimer, to which I'll share here. I have ordered from Majestic Honda and Bell Honda where my parts had to be shipped separately since a few parts either site didn't actively stock. They had to put in a PO and have it shipped direct to me from Honda since the part was basically special order only. May or may not be the case with individual HG kit components. If you don't mind a potential wait (e.g. not in any hurry), saving hella bank may very be worthwhile. Last head gasket job I did, I sucked up the extra $100 upcharge the dealer had (they discounted it for me -- almost their cost price + tax) since I needed it ASAP and could get it overnighted for less money than they offered it for.

BanoOmg

All right, good news for me

Thanks for listing all of the part numbers. It made it easy to check, but it doesn't hurt to confirm on the forum!