Hondaman4ever

Hello all. First time posting.

First, just want to say I'm really liking this site. Much better than the other ones and a lot of info. Good job.
Secondly, I hope I'm posting in the right section.

I consider myself a hardcore Honda fan. I've owned 7 Hondas in the past 20 some years and they were mostly reliable cars. Just purchased my 8th Civic and it's my 1st 7th gen -all have been older. An '03 5 speed LX that's very clean with only 159,000 Km (99,000 miles). However, been reading a lot on 7th gen Civics and what I'm finding is scaring me. Everywhere I read it's head gasket, throw-out bearing, and auto trans., which I don't have to worry about since mine's a 5 spd.

Here are my questions:
- Is a HG an inevitable thing even if I make sure the cooling system's working properly and I don't abuse the car ?
- From the service records that came with this car, the transmission's already been changed (at 133 ks). The clutch and pressure plate have been replaced and flywheel resurfaced. The previous owner had the car for 7 years and only put about 70 Kms on it and from the service records it seems like he took care of the car. The problem was an Input Shaft Bearing, which I'm finding is a very common problem with these Civics. I know the garage most likely ripped the guy off by changing the whole transmission. Now, I notice when I first start the car int he morning, I hear what sounds like the throw-out bearing because when I press the clutch the sound stops however, the noise is almost unnoticeable and it only lasts for like a minute or so then I won't hear it again once the car is warm. So, I'm wondering if this is something to worry about or is this normal in cold weather (before the car's warmed up).
- Sometimes, when I first push on the gas pedal -while the car's already moving- I feel like there's a delay before the car accelerates. I'm talking barely a fraction of a second but once it goes it goes. No "choking" or bad hesitations and it only happens once in a while. Oh, no CEL and the scanner I have says "no codes...". So,....

- One annoying thing that just started happening is the squeaking noise when I press the clutch and the clicking sound when I first touch the brake pedal. Both seem like a typical thing on these cars but I'm hoping neither's a serious problem.

I really love Hondas and I can't imagine myself driving something else after so many years of driving Civics. But again reliability is the main reason why I stay with these cars and I certainly don't want one that's going to need costly repairs even with all the TLC.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts and input.

ezone

Not all blow the head gasket......but if it's gonna happen there isn't anything you can do to prevent it either.
Do read up on how it fails on this engine so you know what to keep an eye on.

Used trans?....probably will also need the same thing (ISB) sooner or later.

Did you check trans fluid level yet?

Labor-wise, a used trans replacement can be a reasonably priced alternative to opening up one that needs bearings or overhaul--that can get pricey in a shop because there's a lot of labor time involved.

That's not the throwout bearing making noise........

We can't hear anything over here! LOL

If it's not loud, it's probably not an issue. A manual trans CAN make some noise in neutral even when all is well.





Recalls up to date? Check below:

Slumpertcivic

Hondaman4ever

Thank you ezone and slumpertcivic for the replies.

Slumpert, the stuff I read about the HG in these Civics isn't just from owners but from sites that report on cars and their reliability/common problems...

ezone, well, that sucks to hear (about the HG). OK. So let me ask this, are these Civics any worse than the 6th gen (the likelihood of developing a HG problem)? I know even 5th and 6th were known for having this problem but just wondering if the 7th is even worse.

The previous owner paid $1400+ (Cad) for the stuff I mentioned above. I once called a shop just to see how much they charge for ISB work and they said around $700. So, I still think the guy got suckered into paying for a transmission replacement instead. Well, hopefully I won't have any ISB problems any time soon. BTW, is there an average number of Ks for this problem to start happening?

If by "fluid level" you mean the oil in the transmission, then no I still haven't checked that. The clutch oil level is good.
But good to hear the noise I'm hearing shouldn't be a problem.

BTW, what's the best place/section here for general questions on these Civics? Is it "Other 7th Gen" ?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Just post up in the parent 7thgen subforum.

Either that or I'll start a poll and see if there's enough interest for a "general [x]gen questions" subforum. If there is, I can make that happen.

As far as squeaky clutch,its your slave cylinder. Pull back rubber boot, clean and lube. No more squeak for a while

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

we just consider that the headgasket is a thing that will happen.
If you look into other cars, most of them have quirks. just part of car ownership.
Leaving a head gasket problem get worse is much more expensive, just know what signs to look for. the auto trans issues are way worse. The 8th generation cracked block is worse.

ezone

Every manufacturer and every model have problems.


Maybe people don't complain nearly as loudly about major problems from the Big3, problems from them are just expected and accepted
(I work next door to a dealership that has all of the Chrysler lines including Fiat....I'm AMAZED at some of the crapwagons in for repairs there...Since when is a valve job at 50k miles considered 'normal'?)

The earlier cars certainly do blow head gaskets, but we really don't see cars that old on a regular basis anymore at my dealership.
7th gens are old enough to be getting scarce, except for recalls....and a good percentage of those owners in for recalls aren't going to spend a dime in the dealer for anything the car really needs.

Maybe some people just can't believe that a Honda could ever *GASP* break, and they will actually have to *GASP* pay money to fix it.

Maybe some people whine because of the expense involved in fixing a failed head gasket. Toss in a timing belt or anything else that needs done while half the engine is stripped apart, it adds up quick....
(maybe they didn't spend a dime on maintenance in the first 100k miles, and don't want to start spending money now)

Maybe some people whine about the 7th gens because a few fail somewhat early on in the cars expected lifespan.

Maybe some people whine because they waste so much money replacing random good parts attempting to resolve the overheating issue....that by the time they finally figure out it was the head gasket all along, they don't have any money left to fix it.

JMHO, YMMV

Maybe the shop or the mechanic wasn't comfortable attempting to do internal transmission work.

FYI opening up transmissions is a whole 'nother ball game in the field of mechanic work.....and a manual trans is vastly different from an automatic trans.

Not many mechanics have these skillsets.
Very much like electrical and electronic work, and in depth diagnostics that goes beyond "read code, throw part".
The people who have critical thinking skills and put in the time to do this stuff well and accurately deserve tons of money, yet everyone wants this stuff for free.
IMO no.
Do trans fluid services on a regular basis with the right fluid. It only holds a couple quarts.

Yes I meant that.
Manual trans has no dipstick so it's not easily checked, and trans fluid leaks can quickly become a trans disaster.
Hope you know that's DOT3 Brake Fluid in there, just like the brake system.
Oil of any sort will ruin both of those hydraulic systems.

I kinda toss most stuff like this in mechanical problems.

Hondaman4ever

Thank you all again for the replies and thanks ezone for taking the time to write all that.

As a faithful Honda fan and enthusiast, I really want to believe that this gen of Civics is as good as previous ones when it comes to reliability, and I don't believe everything (negative) people say about these cars -especially that a lot of people like to hate on these cars- but there's no denying there's a lot more negative stuff being reported on these Civics than there's on previous gens. So...?

Now, I do realize it's human nature to focus on the negative even if it makes up just a small portion of the total picture. Yeah. Maybe people have gotten so used to Civics being a synonym for reliability that problems such as the ones reported (HG, ISB, ...) can't be accepted. I myself have never had a HG with any of my previous 6 Civics -only one '95 suspected but it had 388 K on it. I had an '83 Accord (when I lived in Cali) that I drove for 8 years and put 100,000 miles on top of the 90 K it already had -and I thought the odometer had been tampered with- and never changed the clutch or even the timing belt or the CV joints that were clicking from day one and I only did basic maintenance until I lost the car in an accident. Well, maybe that was a whole different breed of Hondas back then.

I don't know. I really want to keep the car because it's very clean, low Ks, has been well maintained by the previous owner, and I only paid $2300 Cad ($1850 US), which is a very good deal. I'm thinking the money I saved on the price of the car can be used for future maintenance. I really enjoy keeping my Hondas as long as I can just to see how long they'll go. But I do believe in "anything that can go wrong will go wrong" but I just hope this car will be like the previous ones and most of the stuff that can go wrong, doesn't. Lol.

ezone, the shop where the guy got the transmission serviced is actually a big reputable shop with perfect 5-star reviews. I'm sure they could've just done the ISB. I don't mind. I didn't pay for it.
Yes. I know there's no dipstick for manual trans. I know where the plug was on the 6th gen but I have to find it on this one. And I know it's DOT3 for the clutch, same as brake fluid, but thanks for the info anyway.

Riceboy, I pulled down a plastic panel (right above all the pedals) but didn't see any rubber boots where the clutch pedal goes in. The squeaking -or it actually sounds like frog croaking- is coming from there. It seems to come and go depending on the temperature (outside). Can I just use any auto grease for that ?

I just thought if there's a "general 7th gen questions" section that way people who don't have actual problems can post their Qs there.

Thank you all again for taking the time to read and reply. Much appreciated.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Not in the cabin. In the engine bay itself. Standing in front of the car, to the left (towards the passenger side) of the exhaust manifold. Pretty much a straight shot down from the upper radiator hose. It's a common problem in 7thgen MTs. Last time I had that engine bay taken apart, I used assembly lube and the squeak never came back

check out this thread: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...c-added-5.html

There are good pics on post 127/128. Looks like people are suggesting to use white lithium grease.

ezone

"Over-center" spring on the clutch pedal???...hose it liberally with spray white lithium grease


There's probably also a TSB for creaking and popping noises that originate in the clutch master cylinder

Hondaman4ever

The funny thing is I know where the slave cylinder is because I almost changed it on a '98 Civic I once had but all I was thinking was checking the inside of the cabin since the noise was coming from the clutch pedal (or the part that goes into the firewall). Anyway, the sound is almost gone now even though I haven't done anything to fix the problem but I'll try the grease thing if it gets loud again. And yeah ezone, I think it is the spring. When I took a look the other day and pressed the pedal with my hand it felt like some kind of a spring was making the noise.

Anyway, it looks like I'm going to be having a more serious problem to worry about than clutch pedal noise. I was driving on a stretch of a highway with a bit of steep incline and I was in 3rd gear to keep up the speed when the CEL suddenly started flickering. It then went off and hasn't come back (that was yesterday). This is the first time this has happened since I bought the car about two weeks ago. Like I'd mentioned, sometimes I feel the car isn't responding at it should when I give it gas. Wondering what this could be.

dsm482

FIAT and Chrysler next door ezone.. two of the worst car quality companies.. FIAT is notorius fixer daily In Europe, and chrysler seems like perfect marriage)

ezone

For some reason your post was ghosted by the system....
Steady flashing? Misfire code would have been set, but may or may not have been stored. Read codes and see if you find anything.

Hondaman4ever

Hi again.

Two days ago while driving on the highway CEL started blinking -for the second time in about a week- for a few seconds then stopped.
Used my scanner and it says no codes but when I scroll down it actually gives 3 codes.- P0302, P0304, P0300. (Cylinder misfire). This doesn't sound good. Now I'm worried about damage to the cat. convrt. I've never had such problems with any of my previous Civics. It's only been 3 weeks since I bought this car. WTH?

Any suggestions on what to start looking for ? Spark plugs, wires...?

Thank you

Colin42

Well the spark plugs are the easiest to check so start there.
Have they ever been done? The car is almost at the mileage for them.
Maybe someone put the wrong plugs in?

Slumpertcivic

ezone

Got freeze frame data from your scanner to post for us?
I want to know about how you were driving when this happened.... Was it just cruising at a very steady speed? Were you accelerating?
What speed? What RPM?

Is this misfire issue consistently and easily repeatable?
It does not have plug wires.

I would not replace a damn thing until I know for certain what will solve the problem.
I'd even go so far as to say that if the problem is what I think it might be, the fix might not involve any replacement parts at all. Just work.


Meaningless!
You bought a used car.
You bought everything the previous drivers broke and neglected.
You bought everything that is already worn out.
You bought someone elses problems.
You bought a used car.


If you expected everything to be perfect, you should have bought a brand new car with a warranty.
HANDY INFO: New cars aren't always perfect either!

Hondaman4ever

Colin, I've only had the car for 3 weeks. I usually do all the basic stuff (spark plugs, air filter, oil change, PCV vlave, fuel filter-I know these ones have it in the tank) when I first buy a car but haven't done anything on this one yet except an oil change since I've been busy with some work and the weather's been really cold lately to stand outside and do these things. Hopefully tomorrow it will be a little warmer so I can check the spark plugs.

Slumpertcivic, ezone, I know I'm buying a used car but a used car -or a used anything for that matter- does not automatically = trouble or it's going to start falling apart. Never bought a new car and never will. 20 years of owning Hondas -almost all were Civics- and except for one clutch job never had to fix anything major. Never had a car develop any kind of problems within the first year of ownership, let alone within the 3rd week. Must have been on a lucky streak all those 20 years with the 8 Hondas. Like I said before, I believe in "anything that can go wrong will go wrong" but wasn't expecting it so early, but anyways....back to the issue with the car.

I will check the spark plugs tomorrow -weather permitting- and will hook up the scanner again and see if I can find freeze frame data, but basically I was going uphill -10 degrees incline- on a stretch of a highway and I was in 3rd gear -trying to pick up speed- probably going 65/KPH when the CEL started blinking. I think it blinked 5-6 times in total then stopped. Second and 3rd time it blinked again was 3 days later and I was on the highway -flat area- in 5th gear going about 85 KPH/50+ MPH. The car did feel like it was "choking" when I tried to accelerate but again the blinking stopped after like 6-8 seconds and the car felt like normal again. Drove it again today on the hwy and no CEL however, like I mentioned at the beginning, I don't think the car always accelerates as it should.

ezone

Does this car have an EGR valve?

Hondaman4ever

So, I checked the spark plugs -they are actually NGK- and they look next to brand new and the inside of the wells look so clean and shiny.
Hooked up the scanner again to try and retrieve any Freeze Frame Data and it said " no freeze frame data stored " ! Went back to look for the 3 codes I previously found and it said " no codes stored in the module " or something like that. Tried again and again but no codes ! I know I never erased the codes and I didn't disconnect the battery. So, I wonder why the scanner isn't showing the 3 codes any more. No new CEL flashes since Sat.

My car doesn't seem to have an EGR valve.

Colin42

Has it been driven since you last saw the codes? the computer may have cleared them if they were only soft codes. take it out on the highway with your scanner and pull over as soon as it acts up?

ezone

Ya, some cars can dump misfire codes from memory if they don't continue or repeat within a certain amount of (time/miles/drive cycles/conditions)

No EGR.....there goes my first guess LOL

Maybe this is why the previous owner got rid of the car?



If you can nail down a single cylinder misfire code, then you can start moving parts around to see if the misfire code shows up in another cylinder the next time

Hondaman4ever

Colin42, yes. I drive this car every day. Today I drove about 60 KMs, 1/3 were on hwy. Yesterday, 60+ all city. The day before, 30 KMs hwy and then some city driving after. No CEL. I think last time I used the scanner and got the codes was Sun. Yesterday (Tue), no more codes !

ezone, yeah I think '01-'03 didn't come with EGR here, with the exception of the EX.

I'm pretty sure the previous owner didn't know what an EGR was. He didn't look like he was mechanically inclined at all. He was paying $130 to get spark plugs changed in this car! And he had owned the car for 7 years prior to the sale. What he did know was that this car wasn't big enough for a family of 4. lol. Which is why he decided to sell it and buy a van.

Any way a cracked exhaust manifold can cause these codes ? I kind of smell like exhaust gases in the cabin, or maybe I'm just imagining since I'm very sensitive to odors.

I'll keep driving and see if I get the CEL warning again. I'm going to be trying some good fuel inj. cleaner soon.

Just wondering, is it possible to add an EGR to a car that didn't come with one? I don't know why these particular models didn't come with EGRs. I don't get the logic of manufacturers.

ezone

You haven't posted any code information yet?
Don't even consider it.

Hondaman4ever

I drove the car on the hwy for about 60 KMs at 80 MPH and even pushed a little hard on the accelerator and no new CEL warning. Even the slight occasional hesitation I was having seems to have gone. Scanner still shows (0) codes. Those 3 codes previously displayed seem to have disappeared. I wonder if it was a clogged up injector/s. I've used a couple of fuel injector cleaners since I bought the car. I hope the problem has resolved itself somehow. The only thing is the exhaust gases that I can smell some times. I'll check tomorrow to see if there's a crack in the exh. manifold.

Colin42

you should be able to hear where the crack is

ezone

It's probably cracked, but that won't cause misfire codes. Yea you should be able to smell and hear, and if you can remove some of the heat shields you might see the evidence.

Until you have solid code numbers to work with, keep on driving!

Hondaman4ever

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah just removed the heat shield and there is a tiny hairline crack on the left side. It's much smaller than the one that was on my '00 Civic. You think it would be possible to get it welded since it's tiny ? It's almost invisible if it weren't for the little soot around it. I know welding doesn't always work well. The smell isn't bad at all and it's not always noticeable.

What do you think about cat. converters from ebay, or Rock Auto? Some seem to have good ratings. I know the ones that say "illegal in California" are probably illegal in Canada too. Any one can recommend a good brand ?

Well, I hope I never get any more CEL warning, but wondering what the odds are of that happening.

ezone

People braze em

Colin42

Don't think they're illegal in Canada. Only California has the really crazy emission laws.
Cheap ones are cheap for a reason, that being said...

I have a cheap one on my girlfriend's '99 civic got it used off my buddy for $50. The original factory one was cracked and then it started throwing p0420. So I scrapped the oem on for $80 and grabbed the cheap one. No problems in over 10,000 kms