2002 Crank no Start no Codes
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Daughter in Law's car (Civic EX 2002) stopped today while she was driving (I have no other details yet). It was towed to my house.
There are no codes in memory (checked with a meter).
Battery reads 12.4V
Cranks strongly, but won't fire
Replaced Fuel Pump Relay, with no success. I can hear the fuel pump anyway when I turn the key on.
Should I suspect the crank sensor? I don't have any codes, so that's not high on my list.
Off now to check fuel pressure, but I'd like to hear of any other items that I should check at the same time.
Thanks in advance.
There are no codes in memory (checked with a meter).
Battery reads 12.4V
Cranks strongly, but won't fire
Replaced Fuel Pump Relay, with no success. I can hear the fuel pump anyway when I turn the key on.
Should I suspect the crank sensor? I don't have any codes, so that's not high on my list.
Off now to check fuel pressure, but I'd like to hear of any other items that I should check at the same time.
Thanks in advance.
#3
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
Remove oil cap. Get a flashlight.
Watch inside the hole for any movement of the rocker arms while someone else cranks the engine.
Got compression?
Got spark?
Got fuel?
Plugs wet, or dry?
Watch inside the hole for any movement of the rocker arms while someone else cranks the engine.
Got compression?
Got spark?
Got fuel?
Plugs wet, or dry?
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@colin42: The immobilizer light is solid green when I put the key to accessory. It goes out when I turn the key to crank the engine, and comes back on when I release the key
@ezone: Three of the spark plug seals have gone, so those plugs were soaking in oil when I got them out. The one that has a good seal was a dry plug. Fuel pump still, even though I can hear it?
Had to put it away tonight so I can get the day-job done, but tomorrow I'll test compression and spark. What's the best way to check for fuel?
Thanks for the help so far!
@ezone: Three of the spark plug seals have gone, so those plugs were soaking in oil when I got them out. The one that has a good seal was a dry plug. Fuel pump still, even though I can hear it?
Had to put it away tonight so I can get the day-job done, but tomorrow I'll test compression and spark. What's the best way to check for fuel?
Thanks for the help so far!
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
It goes out when I turn the key to crank the engine, and comes back on when I release the key
Three of the spark plug seals have gone, so those plugs were soaking in oil when I got them out.
Crank it over before you try to install plugs, you don't want to have a cylinder half full of oil and hydrolock the engine
The one that has a good seal was a dry plug.
Fuel pump still, even though I can hear it?
What's the best way to check for fuel?
If it's got spark, Get a spray can of anything flammable (starting fluid, carb/throttle cleaner) ....Remove air filter cover......and spritz some into the throttle while cranking...If that gets it to try to fire, you confirmed "Lack of fuel" for whatever reason. Injector signals, pump pressure, scanner data list, etc.
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Had a chance to look at this some more today. The first thing I did was check compression.
0.
Zero.
On all cylinders. I even double-checked the compression tester with another vehicle, in case it was the tester that was broken.
But.. I'm certain that I was seeing the rockers move; I'd expect nothing if the timing belt had gone. Any other diagnostic tests I can try to confirm this?
Thanks again for all the help!
Pete.
0.
Zero.
On all cylinders. I even double-checked the compression tester with another vehicle, in case it was the tester that was broken.
But.. I'm certain that I was seeing the rockers move; I'd expect nothing if the timing belt had gone. Any other diagnostic tests I can try to confirm this?
Thanks again for all the help!
Pete.
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well if its zero, stick your hand over the spark plug hole while some one cranks see if you can feel air being pushed out
did you try putting a couple tablespoons of oil down into each cylinder?
did you try putting a couple tablespoons of oil down into each cylinder?
#9
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Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
Zero compression and rockers are moving..
Logic tells me choices are
Holes in all your pistons
timing belt skipped bunch of teeth and bent valves
Completely clogged intake
bad compressiion tester
hope it’s the tester..
Logic tells me choices are
Holes in all your pistons
timing belt skipped bunch of teeth and bent valves
Completely clogged intake
bad compressiion tester
hope it’s the tester..
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I haven't put any (more) oil down the cylinders - the leaking spark plug oil seals will have done that for me
I tested the compression tester with one of our other cars, and got a reading that i expected.
The car turns over really well - wouldn't I have heard noises if there were bent valves?
Not sure how to test for a clogged intake - where to start looking?
I put a borescope down one cylinder - definitely no holes in that one!
I took the valve cover off this evening, and can confirm that there is a timing belt there, and it all rotates when the engine turns over (and valves move). There doesn't seem to be much tension on the timing belt, though - I can push and pull it around with a screwdriver (i.e, I can push it away from the engine and pull it towards the engine easily enough). Are there any timing marks I can check against without having to dig too much deeper on the engine? (I'm happy to change the timing belt etc, but want to be 100% sure before I do it...)
I tested the compression tester with one of our other cars, and got a reading that i expected.
The car turns over really well - wouldn't I have heard noises if there were bent valves?
Not sure how to test for a clogged intake - where to start looking?
I put a borescope down one cylinder - definitely no holes in that one!
I took the valve cover off this evening, and can confirm that there is a timing belt there, and it all rotates when the engine turns over (and valves move). There doesn't seem to be much tension on the timing belt, though - I can push and pull it around with a screwdriver (i.e, I can push it away from the engine and pull it towards the engine easily enough). Are there any timing marks I can check against without having to dig too much deeper on the engine? (I'm happy to change the timing belt etc, but want to be 100% sure before I do it...)
#11
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
timing belt skipped bunch of teeth
The car turns over really well
- wouldn't I have heard noises if there were bent valves?
I took the valve cover off this evening,
There doesn't seem to be much tension on the timing belt, though - I can push and pull it around with a screwdriver
Are there any timing marks I can check against without having to dig too much deeper on the engine?
Rotate crank until TDC mark aligns in pointers.
Check cam timing mark locations. If it is a half turn off, rotate crank one more full turn.
https://www.2carpros.com/questions/h...for-belt-repla
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But does it sound like it doesn't have ANY compression?
Wiggle check the rocker arms up and down......Is there a lot of free play? Like way more than 0.010"
Tensioner pulley is floating, not locked. It's dampened, but under spring tension at the same time.
Remove 3 more bolts (10mm wrench/socket) to remove upper timing belt cover.
As always - many thanks for the ongoing assistance!
Pete.
#13
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
1/4 inch of play is bent valves. The end. EDIT unless something else weird happened
Figure out why the timing belt jumped time (tensioner spring broke or wore through the arm of the pulley?) .......then pull the head for valve replacement or pull the engine
Figure out why the timing belt jumped time (tensioner spring broke or wore through the arm of the pulley?) .......then pull the head for valve replacement or pull the engine
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1/4 inch of play is bent valves. The end.
Many thanks!
#15
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Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
If you look down a row of valves, all of the valves that are closed (not being pushed open by the cam lobes) their spring tops should all be at the same height. Any valves that are bent will have their stem pulled down and valve spring thus compressed....
if you wish to remove the rocker shafts from the head, the valve springs that are very low should become pretty obvious
if you wish to remove the rocker shafts from the head, the valve springs that are very low should become pretty obvious
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#18
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
tensioner
Too many aftermarkets fail....some don't even make it to the next oil change, and the life of your valves are at stake.
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So to look at this further...
I got the head off this evening. Definitely bent valves. It looks like the tensioner let go - timing belt was done less than 20,000 miles ago, and the tensioner was completely out of alignment.
My plan is (was) to replace the head with a remanufactured unit, plus the timing belt etc (and HONDA tensioner).
My question, however, relates to the pistons. They all have obvious marks on them from where they hit the valves; Should I go ahead with the new head, or is the block toast and the whole repair a waste of money? If it's marginal, is there any other test I can do to check the bottom of the engine?
Here's one of the pistons (all four are about the same...)
Honda Piston after a short get-together with the valves.
I got the head off this evening. Definitely bent valves. It looks like the tensioner let go - timing belt was done less than 20,000 miles ago, and the tensioner was completely out of alignment.
My plan is (was) to replace the head with a remanufactured unit, plus the timing belt etc (and HONDA tensioner).
My question, however, relates to the pistons. They all have obvious marks on them from where they hit the valves; Should I go ahead with the new head, or is the block toast and the whole repair a waste of money? If it's marginal, is there any other test I can do to check the bottom of the engine?
Here's one of the pistons (all four are about the same...)
Honda Piston after a short get-together with the valves.
#20
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
Pistons are fine.
Would you like to pull pistons for a rering while the head is off? (oil rings are usually stuck, it slowly burns oil)
Would you like to pull pistons for a rering while the head is off? (oil rings are usually stuck, it slowly burns oil)
#21
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Phew! Thanks! I'll start ordering the parts tomorrow for the repair.
I don't know... would I? I've never done pistons before (I've done head gaskets, usually on Subarus, but nothing deeper). Is it a massive increase in the size of the job I have? What would be involved?
I don't know... would I? I've never done pistons before (I've done head gaskets, usually on Subarus, but nothing deeper). Is it a massive increase in the size of the job I have? What would be involved?
#22
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
It's a bit more time, work, and expense.
It would give you an opportunity to see if the dink marks from hitting valves has caused deeper damage to the pistons (pinched rings). I don't expect that happened, too far from the edge.
It would give you an opportunity to see if the dink marks from hitting valves has caused deeper damage to the pistons (pinched rings). I don't expect that happened, too far from the edge.
#23
Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
My 2005 civic had the same symptoms and solved it by changing the CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.
Last edited by e4wd2325; 03-07-2018 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Inacurate photo
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When I tore down the engine, I found that whoever had done the last timing belt had reused the old tensioner bolt - which was one of the short ones that Honda replaced with longer bolts a while ago. I have the new bolt arriving tomorrow - in the meantime I did the water pump, plus the front main seal and the O-ring on the oil pump. Timing belt will be done tomorrow, then tappets, bolt it all back up and pray that the new cylinder head is happy..
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Re: 2002 Crank no Start no Codes
Phew! Thanks! I'll start ordering the parts tomorrow for the repair.
I don't know... would I? I've never done pistons before (I've done head gaskets, usually on Subarus, but nothing deeper). Is it a massive increase in the size of the job I have? What would be involved?
I don't know... would I? I've never done pistons before (I've done head gaskets, usually on Subarus, but nothing deeper). Is it a massive increase in the size of the job I have? What would be involved?
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Quick update to close off this thread.
I purchased a new head from Machine Shop Pros (http://machineshoppros.com/). Got an OEM timing belt kit, and also picked up all new timing belt covers. Dropped the oil pan and did the piston rings, plus the EGR and IAC valves. New hoses and belts, new water pump, and I did that little gasket behind the oil pump. Pretty much a complete engine rebuild. Stepson now has his car back, and he's very happy with the work done and the price (because wifey won't let me charge shop rates for the labour!). I even had it washed for him.
I purchased a new head from Machine Shop Pros (http://machineshoppros.com/). Got an OEM timing belt kit, and also picked up all new timing belt covers. Dropped the oil pan and did the piston rings, plus the EGR and IAC valves. New hoses and belts, new water pump, and I did that little gasket behind the oil pump. Pretty much a complete engine rebuild. Stepson now has his car back, and he's very happy with the work done and the price (because wifey won't let me charge shop rates for the labour!). I even had it washed for him.
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