Twisties

I have an all stock 2002 Honda Civic LX, manual transmission with over 160K miles.
No issues for the past 2 years.
Yesterday the car ran fine all day then around 9PM after stopping at a store (for a few minutes) the car would not start.

The car cranked fine. The first time (after living the store) it attempted fire for a tiny bit almost started but after that nothing (not unusual for any vehicle). But after that, it just cranks and cranks but does not start like it had no gas.
Got it towed home. After an hour (and a lot of shaking for riding on a truck bed) I decided to tried it again and nothing.

Decide to sleep it off (since I was kind peeved) and then tried again at 8AM to start trouble shooting and the car just started right off (first try, like NOTHING was ever wrong). Idles great, no hesitation, smooth running. Tried again at noon and again everything great. Decided to try again at 9PM (hoping it had nothing to do with the time) and the car again cranks but does not start.

I check the forum and did not find anything useful as I did not see any similar problems solved.

First:
Temperature outside was warm (not super hot). 90° on the day and high 70°'s at night.
The car was not running that long (maybe 20 minutes) before the store stop.

So here is what I have (so far):

• No noises (before or after it was acting up).
• No resent work done (except for oil change) in the past 6 months
• Tune up done about 15K miles ago
• Car has gas (which is obvious since it started in the morning).
• Plugs, coils and electrical a cabling should be fine (since it started in the morning).
• Oil level is fine
• It has gas on the tank (not a lot, light provably about to go on)
• OBD reader says no faults, no pending faults, no historic faults (so no codes to report)
• The real time OBD reader says:
  coolant at 89° (outside was ~80°)
  engine speed cranking at ~400 RPM
• the check engine light goes on then after a few seconds blinks 3 times and it goes away
• the green key blinks and goes away (fairly fast)
• right before I am about to crank the engine the only lights that are on are battery, oil, seat belt and brake
• I hear 2 clicks (a few seconds after turning the key to start) and then after 3 seconds more then another.

Then I tried to start and it cranks and cranks and cranks but NOTHING (not a hint of attempting to start).

Not sure what the heck to look for.

Any suggestion on what can it be?

This thing of not working and then working sucks!
Specially since it started fine during the day and then it died again at night.

mikey1

how did you verify this?

you seem to be assuming alot of things are okay, without any explanation as to how you have come to those conclusions,

what you are describing sounds like an electrical issue to me,

start with your battery terminals, clean them spotless with baking soda and water,

check all main ground connections, battery to frame/engine/tranny, ground strap from frame to engine, positive from battery, make sure all connections are clean and tight,

check the codes that the cel has set,

what is the green key light on the dash doing during the entire process? when you turn the key, during cranking, when you remove the key, turn the engine off, etc etc

Twisties

When it starts, the car runs great (like nothing was ever wrong). When it starts yesterday morning it ran fine (no hesitation, does not run rough, no loss of power, and it started on the first try). I never heard of intermittent spark plug and coil problems. If electrical cabling then it will be arching which will run rough and there would be power loss. Also not mentioned the running OBD reader does not show any MPG loss, throws no codes, and everything looks fine (when it actually starts). It didn't start today so whatever it is is now permanent.

I thought I explain why things are OK. Is there anything specific you think I am assuming that could still be a problem? Anything I should verify another way (that is more reliable)?

Well is either lack of fuel or or lack of electrical power (doubt it would be air), since i think the electrical is fine I think is lack of fuel, but I do not know what?
I am told to by a friend who works on cars all the time to check for relays. Main, fuel pump, and anything to do with the car running. So I am checking the manual. Is there a relay that typically craps out on 7th generation Civics?

The car cranks fine. Cranking uses the most power drain the car ever has as it is a high AMP/voltage motor. It cranks full speed, no issue (constant 400+ RPMs is as good as it gets, no flickering of other electrical). But I did and check again now and everything is super clean. Ever since I change my battery (about 2 years ago) the battery terminals are in great shape I coat them with some battery stuff (I got at the auto parts when I got the new battery) so it looks like it did when I installed it then (no corrosion, nothing around it) also grounding look great (no rust, no oil or dirst clunks around the connections).

As I said previously. NO CODES. All clean. I recheck again and again NO CODES.

Green light turns on when you put the key and then it goes off right away. And never ever goes back on until I shut of the car when it goes on for a little bit.

I hope that the it is not the immobilizer since that is so expensive and it requires a dealer. But I did try 4 different keys (including the original key that has had no use since I got the car) and all behave the same (and all had worked before). Also it turned on yesterday and again no green key light at all once it goes off.

Once I find out the proper part number for the relays I may change them out (one at a time), provably starting with the fuel pump relay. But any recommendations will be helpful.

Thanks for responding.

ezone

If all things were ok, the car would have NO problems. Your car is not ok:
Now that is does not start, that makes it a lot easier to find a problem. Seriously.
Intermittent problems can make you pull your hair out.







Now you need to test some basics:

Does it have spark?
Does it have compression?
Is the correct amount of fuel getting delivered properly to the cylinders so it can burn?

At least one of these things is a problem. Figure out which, and track down why.


Does not sound like immobilizer related issue.

Twisties

I know that but some things are not intermittent. Battery won't loose charge and then gain it later. Compression does not come and go. So those can be assume to be unlikely to be the cause. Although there is a chance it still can be a problem, you work that last.

Yes, I am actually happy it stopped being intermittent.

------------------------------------------------------
SOLVED


Well I think I found the culprit.

I check to see if there was fuel going to the engine since I been trying to start it and there was no even a hint of starting then the spark plugs should be soaked. Well they were bone dry. So no gas.

Since it was intermittent for a while then was either: injectors are not told to send out gas 9which is an electrical issue) , fuel pump bad or power to the fuel pump was not getting there. Checking all over I found that the fuel pump relay tends to crap out and for some reason it never raises a code (the main relay will send a fault so there will be a code. So I tried changing the fuel relay and the car started.

I took it for test run (acually I went to do all the crap I would of done during the weekend have I not had to work on the car). The car ran great and started about a dozen times no problem (last time around 8:30PM).


For those who ever come with similar problems:
- The 2002 Civic relays are under the glove compartment. Empty the glove comprtmanet COMPLETELY (wif not everything will be in ground quick once you are done). Take out the two stopper clips/rollers that attached to the glove compartment near the hinges. Then the glove compartment will swing out of the way.
- Then you will see 2 relays near the edge were the glove box hinges. The left one is blue and right one is brown (at least the ones in my car were). The blue (or left one) is the fuel pump relay.
- To take them out it was a pain in the ***. I found it a tiny bit easier to use a tiny screw driver to wedge by the base of the relay and try to pry it put. The trick is that the relay holder has locking clips that keep the relay from accidentally pop put (which I think it will impossible anyways but hey I am not a car engineer). So you have to keep those apart while using the screw driver to leverage (perfect if you have 3 tiny strong hands). After about 10 minutes I got the right one out and after another 15 i got the blue one out. I popped in the replacement fuel pump relay, then I pop back the brown (main) relay and try again.

CAR STARTED!!!

By the way it was a pain in to find the part numbers.
They are in the CONTROL UNIT (CABIN) section of the parts list.
LEFT SIDE BLUE: The fuel pump relay part number is: 39794-S5A-003 (Well's part number: 20068) and it has 5 blades
RIGHT SIDE BROWN: The PCM relay (aka Main Relay, ECM Relay, Direct Ignition) part number is 39794-S5A-901 (Well's part number: 20122) and it has 4 blades.

Autozone uses the same part numbers as Well's Fuel Pump Relay #20068 / ECM Wiring Relay #20122
O'Reillys uses Fuel Pump Relay #25-0386 / Direct Ignition Relay #25-0381

I only changed the fuel pump relay.

Twisties

The 2002 Civic LX is still running (starting) great. So it was the Fuel Pump Relay.

Thank you to mikey1, ezone and everyone not in the forum that helped.

Benjamin Hobbs

I had the same problem stopping for a short periods of time to pump gas or go inside of the store only to come outside and the car not start. but after letting the car sit for several minutes it would start. After reading this forum I change the blue relay behind the glove box car started right up and haven't had that problem since. Will post a update in a couple days for the longest time I thought it was the starter or the battery come to find out it was this little relay that was horrible trying to get out

jameschris777

Did you check to see if the timing belt is broken? Thats what happened to my 2001 Honda Civic LX. I thought it was the starter only to find that the Timing belt sheered teeth off due to a water pump failure. I would check and make sure the timing belt is still on there good. The three things an engine needs to work are spark, compression, and fuel air mixture. Make sure it's getting spark, compression and fuel to air mixture. If it is a fuel problem you can buy starter fluid and spray into the intake then it will start. You can get a test light and check for spark in the ignition coils. If thats all good you can rent a compression tester from oreilleys to make sure you got at least 130 PSI in the spark plug wells. You can also check for spark in your plugs by taking one out connecting it to the coil and holding it to a ground while cranking the engine. If no spark you could have an issue with the electrical computer, wiring, or crank or cam sensor. In conclusion, you need to pinpoint exactly what is causing the issue so you can fix that and not throw unnecessary parts at the problem like I did at first.

Good luck and God bless.

jameschris777

I have a 2001 honda civic LX that has been nothing but problems. It has about 98K miles and the timing belt just recently sheered teeth off of it. It then was cranking but not starting and I finally found that the water pump caused it to sheer the teeth. So I purchased and installed a Water pump, tensioner, and timing belt. It also had a short in the Crank position sensor so I had to replace that as well. I recently broke a control arm tension bolt on one of the exhaust rocker valves so I needed to get the screw and nut from the junkyard to replace it.

My question is that if I replace the rocker arm assembly is the Vtec the same as the non vtec. Will it cause problems if I replace the Rocker arm assembly with one that is from a Vtec engine. Also, The crankshaft moved out of time when I was taking out the oil seal to replace it on the crankshaft so I had to turn the crank counter clockwise one rotation to realign the engine in time. Will that cause an issue when I go to start the engine?