thardie

I haven't seen this one asked. Here's a photo from the OFFICIAL Honda Civic 2001-2004 service manual in the timing belt replacement procedure:



I've not seen ANYONE talk about making it this tight. I asked a tech at a local dealership, and he said it's correct. Still seems wrong to me. Comments?

scooty

What's wrong about it?

It needs to be tight or that pulley can come flying off at 6500 RPM through the fire wall and chew your face off.

Matt_75

The service manual I have says this:

1. Tighten the bolt to 20 Nm (2.0 kgf/m, 14 lbf/ft) with a torque wrench and 19 mm socket (C). Do not use an impact wrench.
2. Tighten the pulley bolt an additional 90o.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

same here. 181 ft-lbs plus 90 degrees is ri-effing-diculous

cvguy

My understanding (from Haynes and a bunch of DIYs) was that it was EITHER the above 2 steps, OR 181 ft. lbs. - hadn't seen 181+90. Don't own a torque wrench going up that high, so I used the 2-step above when I did mine last month. I used an 8' extension to break the bolt free, and also to re-tighten it. Interesting that it went quite a bit past 90 (about 30 more), with no huge effort. I did put a drop of oil on the outside (front) of the washer (but not on the inside) and the bolt threads, following 2 separate sources for that info. Does this manual say anything about oil on the front of the washer and the threads? Seems that using oil or not using it would be an important factor in these specs.

thardie

Yes, the oiling is the same as previous years (little diagram about where to clean and where to apply oil), so you put the oil on the outside of the washer (where the bolt head will contact), and on the thread, but NOT on the inside of the washer (since this would put oil on the crankshaft pulley), so your description of the oiling sounds right, and is what I did.

I was just blown away about the crazy amount of torque the manual says, and assumed someone forgot to remove the step about turning another 90 degrees when they updated the manual (since I have the previous generation manual too that talks about the lower torque, then another 90 degrees, which makes sense).

Anyone else want to tell me they really did 181 ft/lbs + 90 degrees? Was my local Honda dealership just full of cr*p?

Terry

thardie

Can you tell me the part number of the service manual you have? Is it the official Honda one? Which page are you looking at?

Thanks!

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Just get your biggest breaker bar (Should be at least 24" and tighten it as much as you can)

I wouldnt use an impact to put it on, but taking it off I have used them and have had no problems.

thardie

I'm so frightened of shearing it off, and then having a sheared off bolt on my crankshaft...

I have a torque wrench that I already tightened it to 181 ft-lbs, and I have a 3 foot breaker bar and I can extend that with a steel pipe, so I'm confident I can apply enough force...

Matt_75

I downloaded the manual from here. Page 6-24 has the spec.

http://downloads.hondatech.info/Auto...Civic01-05.zip

I imagine when haynes and/or chilton and others followed the honda official procedure when they were writing their manuals, they determined that 14 lbf/ft plus 90 degree is equivalent to 181 lbf/ft.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

?
breaker bar?

yeh guys need to go to the gym more often.
(sez a 120lbs guy :P)

RichJ

This was the reply I got from ezone
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/p...73-post32.html

Rich

thardie

But the official Honda manual (pictured at the top of the thread) says 181 AND another 90 degrees...

I didn't download mine. I bought the official Honda one from the publisher... I have a telephone book sized manual (and the pages are telephone book thin too)

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Yea, good luck taking that bolt to 181ft-lbs + an extra 90 degrees. I have a hard enough time getting to 181 ft-lbs.

I'd be willing to bet you end up shearing the bolt off if you tried that.

Matt_75

I doubt what I downloaded modified what I gave you. Feel free to follow the "offical Honda" service manual. If you can get it to 181 and another 90 degrees more power to you.

Good luck with that.

Read below about common sense. Hopefully you get it.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

If you snap the crank pulley bolt off in the crankshaft, can you take a picture of it?

thardie

Well, this is why I started the thread. My common sense tells me 181 is more than enough. At least 1 person above said that you should go 181 and another 90, and the Honda Tech an Hayward Honda in California told me it's 181 + 90.

I'm not going another 90, since it feels like it would snap.

I was hoping someone out there did it all the time and could tell me it's right, but what I'm hearing is the opposite.

Thanks everyone for your input!

ubnpast

iTrader: (4)

if you didnt take it off, use some touch up paint on the head of the crank bolt and onto the pulley to give you an idea of where it was torqued to originally.

My toyota's crank pulley had to be torqued to 270 ft lbs!

wrencher

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

It's **** like this that makes me wanna kick techs at the dealership in the ********. Also, it's another reason I only trust 2 people under the hood of my car, myself being one of them.

Good on you for second guessing the tech and posting up here, getting advice from people that actually care about the car(s) they work on.

thardie

One final comment here. This manual is from 2001 (you can see it in the VIN section in the front). My manual is specifically stated to cover 2001-2004, so I guess they changed it some point after 2001.

Just FYI to anyone who sees this in the manual and wonders like I did

johndeerebones

Install the crankshaft pulley and hold the pulley with holder handle (A) and holder attachment (B).

With P/S:



With EPS:



Tighten the bolt to 20 Nm (2.0 kgf/m, 14 lbf/ft) with a torque wrench and 19 mm socket (C). Do not use an impact wrench.
Tighten the pulley bolt an additional 90o.


Outta mine. Ya 181+90? No way. That bolt isn't big enough. That will break it, no question..

If there is question, tourqe it, mark it, drive it a bit and recheck it.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Trust me, 2 foot breaker bar with all your force.. you wont break it..NO cheater bar..

It is how I tighten axle nuts.. since I dont have a torque wrench that goes that high..

Unless your crazy strong it should work.. lol

Matt_75

Well an axle nut calls for 134 lbf-ft. Maybe you should invest in a torque wrench. 181 lbf-ft is tight enough. No one can get that bolt to 181 lbf-ft + 90 degrees without sheering it off in the crankshaft. I can promise you that.

You're an absolute fool if you beyond the 181 lbf-ft for the crankshaft bolt. The laws of common sense do not apply to you if you go beyond the 181 lbf-ft for the crank bolt.

scooty

Looks like the 181 foot pounds was actually supposed to be 181 INCH pounds which is about 15 foot pounds. Plus another 90 degrees probably gets its closer to 180 FOOT pounds.

Biscuit

DING DING DING!!!!!!
We have a winner!!!!!!!

Matt_75

My post 4 days ago wasn't close enough for the win? Damn, can I at least get the turkey dinner or something?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Apparently not.. lol

pjb3

I don't think so. The original post shows the manual with the torque listed as 245 N-m with it converted to 181 ft-lbs in parenthesis. If you do the conversion 245 N-m equals 180.7 ft-lbs so they got it wrong twice or they meant 181 ft-lbs.

Matt_75

^^^^^^^^^^^