johndeerebones

I am at a loss, gonna order the tcc solenoid Thursday, so not worried about that. I have no idea what to go for for the 3 and 4 flare. Played with it some today. I does not ever slip at all on the downshift, just upshift. 2-3 some 3-4 until it warms. NEVER 4-3 or 3-2. Where is the trans control module? Is it part of the pcm, where is it? Was under the passenger floorboard on older Hondas usually, no dice on this one though. Anyone have a pin out for the connectors?

johndeerebones

Looked at the solenoid command charts on my rebuild book

gear solenoid a solenoid b
1 off on
2 on on
3 on off
4 off off


3 and 4 both command solenoid b off

If it was slow to turn off it would hold a little pressure on at the wrong times until the engage pressure of the other overcame it. I am gonna pull the solenoid at lunch time tommorow and power it up and see if it is slow to respond. I am gonna fix the tcc before I would even think about pulling it again. I don't care to pull it again if that is what I need to do, no big deal I just want to have some direction when I do. I would hate to pull it and still see nothing to fix. Again where is the pcm and does anyone have a pin out?

vsual

johndeerebones, thanks for detailing your trans. fix. Are the clutch and converter OEM spec. or something like the TCI overhaul kit. The clutch brand is from Makco, if not can you tell us the brand name.

johndeerebones

The convertor is oem specs, except for the shedding clutch I hope...

The rebuild kit was from Makco, but was Transtec brand. Also oem spec. Don't know how, but my little sister got 142k outta this thing before it had trans trouble. I am not gonna knock it even though I know they have a history of problems. I figure around 150k is about normal for most auto cars. Like said though the trans was not at all bad inside except the 2nd clutch that is a known issue, but it wasn't slipping until I drove it and probably stopped the filter up. It slipped on my brother and law 1/2 block from their house and he parked it then I bought it. So the miles after it screwed up the first time were from me....

johndeerebones

Update: I haven't ordered the tcc solenoid yet, but will. Here is what I have done...
Pulled the shift solenoids and the linear solenoids; used my power probe to power them up and they all clicked fine and were clean. The design of both of them is such that you can't see the pintles to see if they actually are working....I also stuck a pick in all 4 connectors and bent them to give a bit more pin tension to ensure connection. There was no change. I also pulled all the connectors off the pcm and made sure there were no pin outs or corrosion, they were fine. I have the air cleaner dampner off so I can get to the transmission electronics better; I looked down the back to check connectors and noticed that I put the shift cable on before I put the cradle on, so the shift cable is routed wrong. I don't think that has anything to do with the problem, but I am gonna fix it tomorrow and just hope that there is an off chance thats it. I am at a lose for ideas other than that though. If I could get a pin out of the pcm I would make sure the pcm is putting out commands to the shift solenoids correctly. I guess I will fix the tcc problem and go from there. Like I said, I don't care at all to pull it again, I just don't have any idea why, I don't want to pull it for no reason.


On edit:
I just found an ecu pin out; it doesn't look like there is any way that the pc would know if the pressures were low. The tcc sytem is ran off of the linear solenoid b ONLY, that is the high pressure solenoid right? If that solenoid is malfunctioning, my pressures would be low, the tcc in turn wouldn't work, and the higher gears would slip.....just a thought. I was thinking about replacing the shift solenoids to try, but maybe the linear solenoids tie in with the symptoms better. I think that if the shift solenoids were messed up it would try to go in the wrong gears at times and it doesn't, it switches gear perfectly.....

Does anyone have specs for system pressures?

johndeerebones

Not to offend anyone at all, but does anyone know a site for Honda's that people are interested in fixing things instead of wings and spark plug change outs?

I am just gonna go ahead and order the tcc solenoid. Long story short I think I have two problems, the tcc and the shift flares are not related.

I have put 1000 miles on it, I just let off and let it shift into 3 all the time, and 4 until it warms up and it drives fine. Taught my wife what to do and she has driven it some too.

I think the fares have to do with the endplay of the individual clutch packs.
1 and 2 endplay spec is 2 and half thousandths.

3 and 4 on the other hand are close to 1 thousandth. I didn't measure them, frankly I have been into many gm, ford, etc transmissions, and it really isn't that important.

Been a mechanic long enough that I just felt the endplay of each, they are all about the same, and should not be by the specs, so I am gonna pull it again, I just gotta find some gaskets, I have the rest of the sealing rings and stuff from the rebuild, so I can put it together even if I need a seal or two, like I said, the internal parts of the tranny where fine except for the number 2 clutch pack and the filter.

While its out and apart AGAIN. I am gonna double check all the pressure passages in the case again and make sure nothing is clogged with the air gun, but I cleaned it out, so I doubt it.....

mililani

I used to drive 300+ miles from Monterey, CA to Los Angeles. My 2001 Honda Civic would always get 44 mpg (based on mileage and gas fill) and average 65 mph. This is even going up and over the Grapevine (good sized mountain).

Anyways, thanks for your insights into the Civic AT. It was really informative.

mililani

I don't think you're offending anyone here. I think no one is responding because you're pushing the envelope here. You're in no man's land. Haha.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

try honda-tech.com but they can be mean sometimes. they know their stuff tho.

johndeerebones

Hey thanks guys. Sure appreciate an honest suggestion and not some snipe back at me. I will keep this post updated so it might help someone else later too though...
Thanks to anyone who had suggestions too!

DJFCivic

Hi johndeerebones, I recently found some pressure specs (Civic service manual ) I will gladly post them in a day or two. Is there a specific pressure point that is of interest, so I can ensure I provide that? I did read your post and it looks like general pressures, such as pump line pressure, clutch engagement pressures, etc.


Don't need a wing (prefer the 'sleeper' look), and finally planning to change plugs (2001 with only 80K), but looking into playing with the accumulators to stiffen shift points - yes, the manual shows a set of accumulators, so just trying to understanding the design in my 'spare time.'

johndeerebones

Thanks for your interest, and the funny comments .

I am especially interested in the general pressure specs, low and high; and the pressures for each gear, they have ports for each gear. Since I have tcc problems too, I am wondering if I even have high pressure, like maybe the linear solenoid ports are clogged. I have had the solenoid off and it works fine and is clean, but maybe one of the ports in the transmission case are clogged and I missed it...anyway, if you have specs that would be great.
If you are wanting to learn, thats awesome, don't be scared of auto transmissions either, I used to be, there is no "black magic" there, just hydraulics and clutch packs to activate the gears that are otherwise shifted by forks and such....

green01civic

Did you ever get the pressures you needed?

Here is the pressure test from the 01 service manual for the AT:
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1...essuretest.png

rnorton1980

@JohnDeerBones Look man, just rebuilt my wifes BMXA transmission in her 01 Civic EX. The transimission went out. Started flaring driving down the road in 3rd/4th. Problem is, by the time you notice it, you need a rebuild because your clutches are burned out in 1st/2nd etc. Your line pressure should be around 125 to 135 psi and your 1st/2nd/3rd + 4th/rev should be 125 psi at least.

I got a rebuild kit from wittrans.com, plus the steels/frictions. Got the rebuilt torque converter from NAPA ( Pro King ). Rebuilds on the honda bmxa are not too bad but be careful putting everytihng back together. Take pcitures during disassebmly because it's easy to put things back together backward or incorrectly ( backwards:= valves in pressure regulator) ( incorrectly:= check ***** in between main/secondary valve body ) + others, such as washer,etc. Check/replace all your seals ( especially the seals on the transmission end cover, mine wen out but I think it was due to incorrect reassembly. Don't feel bad if you don't get it on the first try, took me many attempts. If this post in any way discourages you, take it to a pro for sure!!

rnorton1980

P.S. in first gear, your pressure is going to be lower until you tap your accelerator pedal. Once you tap it ( 1K RPM or so ) should hit about 125 psi If it never hits above 125 psi in first you probably have an o-ring leak.

sicma99ot

i know im late, but welcome to the club, man. we have t-shirts lol.

but seriously, we need t-shirts. how about "my tranny blew and all i got was this lousy t-shirt" with a CF logo. pun intended

egpshun

Wondering if anyone can help me. I have a 2001 Honda Civic with an automatic transmission. The check engine light went on and told me it was P0740 the TCC solenoid. I drained the fluid cleared the code and the light hasn't come back on.

The problem is, when in Park or in Neutral, and the engine is reved up, the car wants to move forward. When driving the car, in between shifts, the tranny doesn't slip, but it chatters a bit.

I know the car has a common problem with the Torque converter, but it doesn't make sense to me. Anyone have any ideas as to what it could be?

MindBomber

There was a thread opened by someone with a similar problem a couple days ago, if they shifted into neutral and reved the engine the car accelerated a bit. Check the transmission fluid level, their's was a bit high and it was suggested that might solve the problem.

The car should be hot and running when you check the fluid level.

johndeerebones

Old post REVIVED! Thanks for the info. Read the post, I already rebuilt it, it still doesn't act right. I am not discouraged. It is a 3rd car, haven't had time to work on it. I am going to night class so I have been busy, have 1.5 months, so gonna try again.....
I am a well certified car and john deere mechanic, this isn't my first rodeo, so rest assured not scared of it a bit, just don't know where the problem lays.....

johndeerebones

Thank you very much! That will help tremendously! Gonna check the pressures before I pull it this time

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

this is why i gave up on any kind of rebuild. if someone of your knowledge is having problems, theres no hope. shops have even less qualified mechanics. im doing manual swap or bust when mine breaks.

johndeerebones

LOL understood completely! and thanks for the qualified comment too It is purely a $ game for me. I would love to put a manual in. Just would want to find a complete car to swap it out of. Plus I am particular about things, I want it to look like it grew there and perform exactly like it grew there too. I mean no codes, and the dash can't have prnd3 either.... In other words I need it all. All the crashes I find on craigslist and such have autos in them....PLUS I don't have a lot of coin to invest in the car, and as it stands I only have time and about 400 bucks in rebuilding the trans and replacing the convertor. I can fix what is there cheaper then replacing it. BELIEVE me, manual has been checked I have had manuals all my life, just going the auto route as I get older and have kids and a wife They are nice, but they come with a price too... As I said, on break from night class for 1.5 months, so gonna try it again. I have to take it to Honda dealer for the airbag recall deal too, only problem closest one is 70 miles away. Not afraid to drive it, road time might do it good actually, the plates were out in october though, see no reason to license it to let it sit...Maybe I can borrow a trailer and haul it, I have a truck too.....

Any one know what the recall is and how long it takes? Like can I pull it in the shop and let them do it on the trailer or does it have to go on the lift?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

if there is nobody there then it prolly wont take more than an hour. but dealers have a habit of doing paying customers work first. recalls and warranty usually get pushed aside or delayed.

johndeerebones

Depends on what Honda pays too.....

When I was at the Chevy dealer there were several recalls that you could make good flat rate time on. IE GM paid us more time than it took us....

johndeerebones

Sorry to keep hashing on this thing, I didn't get to work on this thing AT ALL in my winter break between semesters. My dad had a subdural hemotoma, (brain bleed, only really bad.) He is very lucky to even be alive. He is doing well, can't walk alone. I have spent 2.5 months very busy, and not on the civic either! I am itching to get this thing going, so probably gonna stick some gauges in it for diagnostics and then probably pull it and take it apart again.....Probably gonna get another rebuild kit for the gaskets anyway, so....
I am planning on working on it still, sorry it has taken me so long.

johndeerebones

I am talking to myself, but maybe the info will help someone else out. Well I have narrowed it down that it has got to be low pressure through out. That is the only thing that fits the symptoms. Not shifting good and the p0741, after I replaced the converter and the solenoid. The wires to the controller are good too. I get spring break the week of the 15th of march, so I plan to work on it then, no time right now..... I will check the pressures to varify the pressures and pull it. I am wondering if I got a checkball in the wrong place or something. The pump itself looked fine. I can diagnose it if that is the problem. I never cared to pull it out again, just didn't know where to go....

kleake

johndeerebones: I have been working on an 02 Civic EX with the BMXA and found your thread. First off, thank you for all of the detail you have provided, it can really help others.

I rebuilt this transmission and replaced the converter due to the customers complaint of slipping. When I pulled it, everything looked good with only minor wear (it has 140k on it). After rebuilding it, I noticed the torque converter doesn't lock in solid between 30 and 40mph. It tends to lock, then unlock, and sometimes shudders for a second or two. I hooked up a light to the TCC circuit to see what the computer is telling it. As it turns out, the computer it telling it to lock up almost constantly once it shifts to 3rd. To really confuse it, I can get up to 40, let it lock up, then maintain the same throttle position and use the brake to slow my speed to about 25 progressively. The converter is not commanded to unlock until it shifts to 2nd, but the converter actually unlocks a time or two and re-locks again. Around the 30mph area it will shudder some as well when it tries to unlock or lock.

I am thinking I may have a similar issue as you and am going to pick up a pressure guage and do some checking. Also like you, I don't really want to pull it out again, but will if need be. I didn't find anything clogged or any damage when I rebuilt it, and I put all new o-rings and such in at the same time. Have you had any time to work on yours any further?

johndeerebones

Haven't updated. About a month ago on my spring break I pulled it out and disassembled it again. I went through it with a fine tooth comb, definately want to fix it or burn it at this point. I SEVERELY need its economy though. I have a 2002 f150 that I am driving to night class 3 nights a week now and in August that will be daily. My truck is getting less than 14 mpg, so it sucks, a lot. 75 or 80 bucks a fillup, 2 or 3 times a week now sucks obviously. Anyway back to the tranny. I think I have found my problem, and guess what it is. I am a dumba$$. The shaft that goes through the pressure regulator housing has 3 sealing rings. I replaced every seal in it when I rebuilt it, and when I put it back together I rolled or something one of those seals. So my theory is that I had low pressures through out the tranny. That explains the P0740, the flares into gear too. I have another gasket for the large part of the case. My kit came with two. Otherwise the tranny is rebuilt, so the parts are new. I am gonna just ultra grey the outside cover. I would love to have a flow chart of the hydraulic system in this transmission so I can confirm that this would cause low pressures like I think it would...

kleake

I figured mine out, and the fix proves a point. Never use Dextron fluid in a honda. You can mix a quart or two, but do not put only Dextron in. This was a complete rebuild, and I used Dextron only. Shuddering, converter locking in and out, etc. When I drained 2 quarts out and replaced it with Honda fluid, it immediately started working better. Replacing 2 more quarts and it was acting as it should. I did two more for good measure. Basically when the converter was supposed to be only partially enguaged, it was trying to lock completely. The honda fluid allows it to partially slip with no "grabbing" feel. So, a little Dextron is ok, but too much and things won't work as smoothly.

DJFCivic

Check out "http://pdftown.com/PDF-Honda-Civic-VII-2001-2005-Service-Manual.html" and use password "pdftown.com" as directed on the page. This "download" is the full OEM civic manual in electronic format, you will find the hydraulic circuits within (and then some).

Reminds me of when a friend (tranny mech.) and I had to rebuild a TH-350, when we were ready to put it back in, we noticed a thrust washer on the bench which belonged to the 1st gear clutch ***'y. After tearing down the freshly rebuilt unit only to find one already installed, he remembered bringing an extra for the job. Hey, it happens. Good luck!