ladyfivepointoh

Same thing just happened to me on Fathers Day. Had no idea what the heck happened so I had it towed to the shop. Checked the codes and P1361 is all there was. Immediately changed out the Camshaft Position Sensor. Drove the car the rest of the week and all weekend. Yesterday morning on the way to work it happened again. Then again this morning. This morning when it happened I had no run the AC at all thinking it would help but that wasn't the case. I checked out the wiring and didn't come across anything that seemed it needed replaced. Should I move on to the crankshaft position sensor? Or is that a completely different code?

ezone

P1361 is an intermittent interruption of the CMP signal. Not a complete failure, but random dropouts of the signal.


I'd check if it was an OEM sensor or discount aftermarket,
see if the wiring was not fully plugged in,
check terminal tension in the sensor connector and at the PCM and any other connections inbetween the two.

If it's a repeatable fault, monitoring with a labscope might be necessary to see what part drops out to cause the code.

Crank sensor faults would normally cause P0335, P0336, P0339 type codes.

NDNV

If you are certain it is an OEM Honda Camshaft Sensor then must be in the circuit from poor connection/loose terminals at sensor and PCM ends, short in the wiring or bad PCM.
Try resetting the PCM and see if the code comes back.

heath3000

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. Helped me to diagnose and (hopefully) fix my daughter's '01 Civic.

It had stalled in stop & go traffic in hot weather 3 times in the last year. I had never been in a position to diagnose when it happened, and it would start up and run fine after 5 or 10 min of cooling, so it wasn't urgent. But she was home from school this week, so I checked it out.

I tested the radiator fans and the fan switch connector. They were ok. I knew it was heat related so I attempted to reproduce by idling the car in the afternoon heat and watching the temperature gauge. I didn't run the A/C because that turns the radiator fans on automatically and I wanted to confirm the fan switch was good (by seeing if the fans would come on once the engine got to a certain temp). They did, but soon after that temp was reached, I revved the engine a bit, and it stalled out. CEL came on, and the code reader showed P1361. The temp gauge never read any higher than normal operating temp (maybe 1/2 tick above), so the car didn't really overheat. But I've read about temperature drift (?) in these types of sensors, so I'm going to assume that enough heat was created to interrupt the failing camshaft (tdc) sensor. ???

I have since replaced the sensor (checked the sensor wiring first) and tried to reproduce with the same method and have not been able to. So, we'll see. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again for this thread and forum.

lacevedo95

I see alot of similar problems that are happening to me...my situation though is that i bought a used 01 civic ex...it was originally an automatic and switched to manual...i bought it from a mechanic at his shop. so i thought i could trust him that the car ran fine and there was gunna be no problems...but im having the P1361 code come up and he did change the camshaft and crankshaft sensors and for 1 full day it worked fine so i thought he fixed it, i thanked him and went home and then it happend again the next day but this time its a little different...as im driving it goes to limp mode and i cant accelerate so what i found out is that i can turn off the car and just turn it back on right away and it work fine again. it'll happen again later on within a few minutes to and hour into a couple of hours, but i can turn off the car and turn on the car and it works fine....so i cant tell whats exactly wrong since its not always on limp mode when it happens...please help..its really frustrating.

Matt_75

I remember reading something about excess camshaft play can cause that code to set as well. It could also possible be a harness/connector issue at the cam sensor as well. Maybe ezone can chime in with some hints.

ezone

Yeah there is an old TSB for excessive camshaft end play causing the code but it only applied to a certain VIN range, not all of the 2001 cars.....and in the time I have been in this dealership I have not personally seen any of them with this problem.


If your car does not have the original engine it may be anyones guess if it may apply or not.

Either way, you'd need to manually check end play to see if it is excessive.
Max allowable end play spec in the serv info is 0.5mm (.020")if you wish to strip the valvetrain and check the cam movement.



Cycling the key off just gets the ECM to allow normal operation until the fault condition returns, then limp mode begins again.

Aftermarket discount sensors used?
Wiring terminal issues?

Give the car back, make the mechanic refund the purchase price and let him sell it to the next mark

Serdmanj2

I have an 01 civic EX about a month ago it started acting up losing power while i was driving had the codes checked and at the time i only got a P0420 code for the catalytic converter which i ended up replacing the pcv valve the cat and both O2 sensors thought it would have fixed it then the same day after fixing all of that if still lost half of its powerthe temperature gauge would rise as well before dying so i had the codes checked again and then it came up with the codes P1361 and P1362 wasnt sure why it hadnt had them come up before when i had it checked so i called a honda dealer asked them what they thought and the service manager told me to check if the cooling fans were running and if they werent that i should try replacing the coolant temp sensor so i replaced that yesterday but the car is still dying can anyone tell me wth is going on ?

Matt_75

CMP camshaft sensor with an intermittent signal. If you can't test it and want part recommendation, I'd be replacing the camshaft sensor or CMP. Inspect the wiring harness and wiring. P1361 is an intermittent timing issue with this sensor.

Serdmanj2

thank you i will look into this i couldn't really get a straight answer from the dealers service manager other than the cts so thus hopefully will help.

Matt_75

Also, if you're going to get one and replace it, I strongly recommend getting the OEM sensor and not an aftermarket sensor. IMO, the only way to go with this type of part is OEM.

NDNV

Consider performing the timing belt service at the same time as the TDC sensor replacement if you are due for one. Every 7 years or 100K miles.

MN-02-CivicEx

When my camshaft position sensor went bad the symptom was that the car ran OK for about 10 minutes and then all of a sudden there was no acceleration and a rough idle just as i was driving into McDs. Then after 30 minutes i could just get back home before the same thing happened again.

This went on for a couple days until a mechanic did a dianostic and told me the camshaft sensor was bad. My neighborhood mechanic wanted to also replace the crankshaft position sensor at the same time with the total cost in the hundreds. I ended up doing the replacement of just the upper cam sensor for $100 including 4 new oil seals in the valve cover and valve cover gasket. I had recently changed the timing belt and water pump myself.

Because the valve cover needs to be removed in order to remove the upper timing belt cover i bought new oil seals as there was some leakage around two of the spark plug tubes. Then i discovered the previous mechanic had installed the seals the wrong way (upside down). When installing the new seals i didn't pound them in all the way. That way when you install the value cover the rubber seal lip will fit a little more down over the spark plug tube. I used a socket that was just the right size to put over the seal's metal surface and carefully pound it in tight, but not quite all the way. If you pound it in all the way they barely fit down over each tube when reinstalling the valve cover.

While i was removing the defunct camshaft sensor and installing the new sensor i could see one reason the mechanic probably wanted to also replace the crankshaft sensor. If your not careful you can drop either the screw and/or the new camshaft sensor down and inside the still attached bottom timing cover. Then you have no option but to remove the crank pulley and bottom timing cover to retrieve the screw and/or cam sensor.

What i did was plug any/all openings below the cam sensor with a small rag(s) before reinstalling the new cam sensor which is a little tricky. I dropped the threaded sensor screw a couple times before finally getting it started into the threaded hole. If i wouldn't have plugged all openings over the bottom timing cover both the sensor and sensor screw would have ended up inside and at the bottom of the lower portion of the timing cover. Be sure to plug any openings before removing the defunct sensor or you could accidentally drop the screw or sensor inside the bottom timing cover. If that happens then you've got a major task ahead in which case you might want to replace the Timing Belt as well as the water pump and the crankshaft position sensor.

jackie168

Hi guys,

I wish you thank you all for resolving my problem with a car.
Car started acting weird when temperature goes up in the middle, engine would die. Chek engine light would light showing p1361 code.
After couple of minutes would start again and of you go.
I notice that when it is cold, you cold drive more than while it's hot. So I always run with AC on, and that was helping with the cooling (the sensor).
This summer was extremely hot, so i took off thermostat allowing engine to be always cold. If the temperature would start rising, AC fans would bring temp down.
Ordered cheap sensor from china ($10) installed that, and was car was running really bad. Worst of all, had mechanic installing it and cost me fortune.
Lucky, found this forum, took advice, bought original camshaft position sensor from Honda.
Took one afternoon in installation and now runs like a charm.
Also, who ever wrote to have piece of rag stuck under cam belt is a genius.
I have abs unit right next to cambelt cover, it was tight taking bolts out and in

I used this video to figure out what are you going to do

Car Details
Honda Stream
2001-Japanese versionEngine No: D17A-2015556Chassis: RN1-1013482
Cheers!

Varoom

Google seems to love this post, so I thought I'd add another data point since this problem seems common:

Like most here, had limp mode issues that became more frequent over time. Short trips were always fine. Anything on the highway would quickly lead to a CEL and limp mode until everything cooled down. Bought a replacement camshaft position sensor and got a mobile mechanic to fix it for $40. It only took him about 40 minutes since he just loosened the bolts and slipped off the upper timing belt cover. Just managed 150+ miles of mostly highway driving without trouble in the Florida heat.

For years before today, after long drives, I'd have the crank the engine for a few extra seconds to get it going unless the engine had cooled down. Nothing I replaced over the years had any effect. After replacing the sensor, it starts up right away no matter how hot it is. If starting your engine takes longer than normal when the engine is hot, it might be a sign that the sensor is starting to get iffy. It might maybe possibly be worth replacing if you're changing the timing belt or something. Just a thought, YMMV, of course.

Wigz02civiclx

Ok so here's my little experment...

I have 02 civic lx 5 speed 158k

first bought the car codes P0420 & P1361 came up

I DID NOT FIX THE CAM SENSOR FIRST!

Since the P0420 came up i figured i had a bad cat & bad 02 sensors, so.....

1. I replaced both 02 sensors.
2. Replaced factory header with aftermarket DNA straight pipe header, $43 ebay: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F33 2762742269

After I installed 1 & 2 the car still ran a check engine light, BUT ONLY FOR THE p0420, which is obvious because the new header elimates the cat. The p1361 WAS GONE AND FULL POWER TO MOTOR RESTORED, AC ON, HIGHWAY, BUMPER TO BUMPER, FULL POWER DOESNT MATTER RUN GREAT!

This in my opnion is an eletrical issue & Honda doesnt want to admit it...

HERE'S WHY I THINK THIS...

End of year comes up on my plates...
Time to go in for emmissions...

Well I just figure slap the old header on with the cat on it, take it on down to the emissions place few about 5 miles away. Take it there & fail! On my way back home check engine light comes back on & p0420 back on with p1361...

i think to myself oh thats right the cat was bad duh!

I buy brand new cat off ebay $95
install new cat drive around & p0420 goes away but p1361 comes back. So this weekend I check wiring, harness, ect. Everything looks good, so I decided to go in & finally replace camshaft postion sensor.
Button everything back up. Let car go run down the road for 45 mins & boom another P1361 comes back up & major loss in engine power, AFTER JUST REPLACING THE SENSOR!!!

So I say screw it! Take header with cat off & put back on DNA aftermarket header & boom can run back down the road again in any weather, any speed, ac, no ac, doesnt matter!

Maybe a computer issue?
Electrical?
Seems odd you drop the cat & all of a sudden I can do 100mph in the car again with zero p1361 codes again whatsoever!

Wigz02civiclx

OK just an update...

Today I took out the new cheap $18 camshaft position sensor & installed a $130 genuine sensor straight from Honda & took it into emissions & passed with flying colors. It was the cheap china ebay sensor this whole time making me fail...

I guess you get what you pay for.

I REPEAT DO NOT USE THE CHEAP CHINA CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR, I PROMISE YOU THESE DO NOT WORK LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSE TO.

HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE

Josefj8

I'm having the same codes. Was your issues the evap solenoid?

Josefj8

Was the evap system the issue?

Tracecross30

I have the same issues with my generation civic. I replaced the sensor 2 days but yesterday the same code p1361 comes on again, this time I was using the ac and I went for a long drive. I hope it's not my crankshaft that shift as one guy mentioned earlier.

pdecoux

Same situation with my '02 Civic. Changed both sensors, but still limp modes. Based on all the reading above, why does it perform well till it fails, then even new sensors doesn't solve the problem? Had changed timing belt also. Really frustrating, and untrustworthy vehicle.

Why heat an issue now, but not before? And more importantly, what is the permanent fix? Can't keep operating in the limp mode.
Appreciate all your inputs and suggestions/ideas/comments.

Colin42

Did you use oem sensors?

Slumpertcivic

Those sensors have a magnet inside and over time, vibration, and heat cycles diminishes the sensors ability to sense the teeth on the sprocket.

There is a “great” unknown about why some people who get aftermarket sensors end up with worse problems than they started with.
Buying the sensor direct from Honda is the best way to go if the aftermarket part didn’t work on your car, but also don’t omit the step of using 1/2 can electrical contact cleaner on the new sensor and connector with ample dry time before connecting.

Tracecross30

Nope but its doing good now..the oem was to expensive at the time for.me

Rob Jones

For those of you who still get P1361 code after replacing the sensor and after ensuring the sensor connector is good, try this 5 cent trick: Before replacing/reinstalling the sensor, place a thin washer (shim) on the mounting bolt so that the shim sits between the sensor and the cylinder head.

Background: After resurfacing my cylinder head, replacing a blown head gasket, and changing my timing belt and pump, I began to get the P1361 code usually after highway driving and AC use. The code became more and more frequent as the car heated up. It even became difficult to start and would sometimes die on start up. I searched for hours on YouTube and came across this video . I had nothing to lose. Removed valve cover, upper timing belt cover, and finally the cam TDC sensor. I got a washer than was...I dunno... 0.5mm thick and placed it behind the sensor mounting hole so that washer would sit between the cylinder head and the sensor. Put everything back together and it after 2 hours of hot/heavy driving with AC on, the code did NOT return.

Why I think it works (not a mechanic but I'm a deep thinker): As the engine warms, the camshaft moves slightly toward the driver's side. My guess is that it moves "out of range" of the sensor. Adding the shim (washer) moves the sensor back in range so that it could read the camshaft TDC position. The comments above mention excessive camshaft end play, which seems CRAZY to me to buy an entire cylinder head for something that would be a few thousandths of an inch off. Thank God He give me the solution. I would be kicking myself if I had to pay hundreds of dollars and at least 12 hours of time to replace the head. Hopefully this helps someone. God Bless!

Colin42

I'll quote myself again

Rob Jones

OEM? Yes, I used genuine Honda camshaft sensor. Part # 37840-RJH-006.. Ebay has it for about $15.00. BTW I have a 2002 Civic LX.

Colin42

$15? that's probably counterfeit. Just checked and I'm seeing anywhere from $85 to $120

Tracecross30

thanks for the reply even though its been a long time since i have this issue and its been solved.

FRSam

Pretty sure that reply wasn't for you.