Soario7

I've searched the forums for hours picking at threads and hoping i would find my answers but unfortunately ive found only arguing and not much answers. Through my reading it seems there are a lot of people with experience here so im hoping you guys can help.

I'll try to make this short and sweet. I have 01 Civic LX Sedan. Manual Trans. Everything is stock. This vehicle will be used as a daily driver to offset mileage on my other car. I drive 70 miles ONE WAY to work everyday. Crazy I know, but the pay is worth it.

Here's what im looking to do. I am only looking to modify the car for better power and road handling, not track or street racing. I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DO AN ENGINE SWAP!!! This car is 115 hrspwr stock and that is too slow. I am only looking to get to 200 hrspwr MAX. I might be satisfied with about 180. Is it possible to do this with CAI, Aftermarket Exhaust and a turbo kit on this STOCK MOTOR without any extra mods AND without decreasing the longevity of the D17A1???

piano55man

You will more likely than not see 200hp with a stock engine....
I ran 10lbs of boost and only saw 160hp.

You will need either a Hondata ECU setup, a Ktuner setup, or some other stand alone ECU to control the fuel and spark.
I wouldn't run over 10lbs of boost on stock internals. I chewed up a rod bearing on my 250,000 mile engine running 10lbs after leaving the dyno.
You will honestly spend well over $2500 to get to 160hp.

If you have questions, feel free to PM me. I'm always upgrading my setup. Currently at a guesstimate of 325hp

Soario7

Geeez! $2,500 for 45hrspwr im not an expert but that sounds sad. Do you know if there were other factors at play other than the boost that may have destroyedbyour rod bearing? Also is that 325hp on a D17A1 and if so how much did you spend to get it that high?

piano55man

You have to remember, our ECU is not programmable...
The stand alone ECU's i mentioned will cost around +/- $1000
A turbo kit that you can install yourself will cost around 800-1200
Then you have to get it tuned.
It adds up quick because of the ECU.

My engine did have 250,000 miles on it when i decided to boost it....

I have rebuilt the engine with crower stage 1 cam, upgraded the springs and retainers, 1100cc injectors, d16Y8 modified intake, return fuel line, inline fuel pump, wisco pistons, eagle rods, king race bearings, bored to 75.5 (stock is 75), block guard, ported and polished the ports myself, gates timing belt, stage 5 clutch, 8lbs flywheel, slicks, just recently welded the differential.


I'm now running 19lbs of boost and I'm only street tuned on my current setup. I need to upgrade the cast turbo manifold. My tuner says they are good till about 300-350hp max.
I have broke just about everything you can on the car....except for the axles...i do plan on getting upgraded axles.
The goal is to hit the 400hp -450hp mark and then see how much more boost the engine can handle....

It's been a long drawn out process and i have the tools and some mechanical knowledge.
If you have to pay for everything to get done, i would advise against it....

Colin42

way cheaper to buy a wreck/rotted rsx and k swap your car. or just sell your car and buy something with 200 hp

BrotatoChip

When I K swapped I bought an RSX Type S to use as a donor. My best guess is I spent $2000-2500 total and had 200 hp with a stock and reliable Honda engine. Put 45k miles on that with no issues.

piano55man

It is, but it's more fun to build a turbo car, blow it up, and then repeat the process over again....lol

Soario7

Thanks for the suggestions but i see that "swap it for the k motor" all the time in this forum. I just bought the car as a commuter but wanted to be a tad bit more peppy. My regular is near 400 and to go down to 115 it feels like im riding a golf cart. Unfortunately a K motor swap will just be way too expensive for what i want done especially after just dropping the money on the car itself. The things i originally talked about putting on i have the skill to put on myself but an engine swap i dont know how to do nor do i have the tools to do it. Besides if were to do a k motor build i wouldnt start with an 01 civic sedan body lol.

That aside if i beef the engine a little, then turbo it, would i be able to get 200hp out of it then?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

the usual saying is: if you are not willing to heavily build it or swap the engine...
you bought the wrong car... Look for a RSX instead...

Soario7

Lol there are a lot of people on here with that type of spunky attitude. I didnt buy the wrong car, i want something out of the car that i might not be able to get. Hondas are good for very high mileage and from what i understand the D motor is probably the best series for racking 100s of thousands of miles. Once i realized how slow the car was and how much maneuvering ive gotta do on the highway through traffic for 70 miles i figured "well civics are known for being highly modifiable maybe i can do that". Long story short i DID NOT purchase the car with the intent to modify it. It just so happens that thats how it turned out and now i might be stuck commuting in the golf cart

Soario7

The way i see it, i plan on having this car till it dies and probably just build it up slowly over time. Im open to suggestions on what i can do that will give me hp gains without reinforcing the motor just yet. I do plan on getting another Honda to modify in the future but i guess this one will serve as my test car for now. With the CAI, exhaust and turbo how much extra hp can i get? Will a low boost pressure of say 3 psi severely cripple the motors longevity without being reinforced? I had a base hyundai veloster several years back and it got 130. It wasnt fast at all but it definitely moved quicker than this civic. Can i expect at least numbers like that with this setup?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

piano55man already answered that... do go check his thread about his build.

have you understood that the 7th gen is different from the 6th gen that are so lauded about? that's when it lost the front double wishbone suspension that made the civics so good back in the days...
they were great until the 2000's, 2001 + are not as great, but not as easily stolen because of the anti-theft (but non-programmable ECU)
about hundreds of miles, be careful and read about overheating, we have a special section for that on the site. been on this site for 11 years, that gives me some understanding about what i am talking about...

are you aware that the LX does not even have the cheaper VTEC E-VTEC system? 6th gen had the real VTEC, 7th gen have the cheaper E-VTEC
E stands for Economy
Search. Decades since these cars have been around, most things where previously covered.
My own car is 17 years old, soon will be able to buy a beer by itself.

intenet tip:

Don't get in a fight with one of the forums administrator

Soario7

yeah he got 160hp out of 10lbs of boost. I wasnt going anywhere near that without reinforcing the engine. Would 3 be ok? And yeah im aware that the A1 is non VTEC. I mentioned that i plan on getting another honda in the future to work on and use this one to learn my way around a honda. Lol i wanna be like you guys, knowing what works and what doesnt. Yeah i can ask advice and i will follow it but sometime you gotta get your hands dirty to truly learn some things and im excited to do it.

piano55man

Boost is like "Nose Candy".
Once you get a taste of a small amount, the next time you want a little more.

From what i have come across, 5lbs seems to be a conservative number to achieve on stock internals.
LOL, i told myself when i started my build that i only want 5lbs, then i wanted 7 lbs, then i wanted 8 lbs...etc.

Keep in mind that no matter what, you will spend roughly $2500 just to be able to boost the car...

BTW how many miles does your engine have on it?

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

I would be concerned about the current status of your timing belt......

Soario7

Trust me, I know exactly what you mean and can fully admit that i will be like this. However, i am not without restraint. As i stated in an earlier post this car will be solely for commuting, but i do plan on getting another Honda specifically for modding and doing the best i can with it. That one will be getting the double digit boost numbers lol! Oh and i just hit the 194,000 mile mark earlier today.

Yes i am worried about that. Im aware that its supposed to be changed out after... I believe it was the 160,000 mile mark for this vehicle and dont know if it was or not. However, driving to work today i did a few "stress test" and its running strong although im a tad worried about the tranny. Its manual but im hearing some "toy car ratcheting" noises when in 3rd. Besides that it performs well with no real issues.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Timing belt life is 100 - 110k

Soario7

Spoke to the guy i bought it from and he had that along with a few other things inspected. He said the mechanic he took it to said it showed no signs of wear and for intents and purposes was practically a new belt. Its possible it may have been replaced at its regular interval before the guy i bought it from got it. I trust the info to an extent. Everything ive dealt with regarding the seller up to this point has panned out. Im still in touch with him and he doesnt hesistate to get back to me if i ever have questions about the car. it appears that the engine bay was worked on cuz it is freakin emaculate.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Full disclosure, feeling lazy at the moment and don't feel like reading everything that's been posted yet. Lol


Stock motor, 8psi is what it can take. I know pianoman said 10psi, but when this forum was suuuuuper active, 8psi was the sweet spot for the d17. If you feel like modding the crap out of the engine internals, there is quite a bit of potential, but it takes money and research. Most I've seen out of a d17 on this forum was 489whp and 389tq from a d17a1 with an a2 head pushing 31psi boost. Unfortunately, all of his posts have been removed by the user during the "great schism" when the original owner of the site sold it, and the forum changed from 7thgencivic.com to civicforums.com. He did, however, go through 3-4 engines and so many transmissions trying to dial it in. He also said that with even a stage 1 cam, no matter how much boost he threw at it, he couldn't get it to produce more than 300. The minute he dropped at stage 3 turbo cam it, it woke right up

Soario7

Holy flurkin starfish Batman!!! Is this a joke?!? Those numbers sound impossible from what ive been hearing... If this is all true then i can get what im looking for. 489 to the wheels is insane compared to what ive been hearing. Surely if thats true 200whp shouldnt bee an issue and can also insure a longer lasting engine and thats all i want from this commuter. Surely i dont have to spend as much money upgrading to that level cuz im only asking for 200whp. The a2 head has the vtec right? I need to know this setup asap so i can get to work... I know you said his thread was deleted but is there any way i can get the info for this setup. Can anyone else confirm this?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I'll see if I can dig around and find anything about him. His username was andyman97, quite notorious in the d17 world back then because of that monster build. Years later and a long time inactive/banned member and I still remember his username, that's how notorious he was

Soario7

Ooooooohhhhh that guy.... Lol ive only been a member on this site for a few days and ive seen his name all over the place here lmao. Yes, please do try to find that if you can. Id greatly appreciate it!

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

430hp was his street map, 489 was his race map

Well I'll be damned, he actually did end up dropping a full d17a2 in. I remember he initially ran the -a1 with -a2 head because the -a1 ran a lower compression from factory

Soario7

Wow thanks! Yeah this list is huge...you have an idea about how much he dropped for this setup? I wont need all this cuz im not trying to push that kind of power out of my commuter but i can use this for my other honda project. Ill probably take some parts from this list. So if i keep the A1 and drop an A2 head on it and i should be able to get the 200whp im looking for with no issue?

piano55man

I thought at one point i read he was using Nitrous to cool the intercooler as well?

mac25

You could start with a vtec head swap, camshaft and IHE.

It would be cheaper, easy, and increase to power significantly. As well you can still boost on top of those mods later if you want to spend more money.

-camshaft $400 (probably have to do a custom shaft through crower, as they discontinued mass production)
-IHE $400
-key reflash for ecu $100
-vtec head $80
-vtec ecu $50

piano55man

Your absolutely right but he may only see 15-20hp gain...tops.

mac25

No it will be more.

A1 to A2 head stock is 110-115hp to 127hp, alone.

And with IHE and camshaft I felt a significant increase in power when I swapped from stock a2 to crower cam A2. You wouldn't feel anything under 8hp, probably sitting around 137-145hp.

Even low estimates moving from 115hp to 137hp, is a 16% increase in power.

Soario7

Thanks for that! These numbers seem promising. In the beginning i was a tad worried but this is why i came here to have multiple minds give their say from their experience and build off of that. Now that i have some decent numbers i can go from there. Perhaps after doing these mods ill start down the road toward the engine internals to withstand stronger boost pressures.

Now that i at least have some of that figured out i want to upgrade the handling. Does anyone know where i can get the brackets that are compatible with the 01 sedan for the rear disc brake swap? Im losing my marbles trying to find it online. My last resort will be to go to a junk yard and rip the disc brake trailing arms off another honda but the chances of finding that may be harder than it seems. Not to mention switching out the trailing arms i would probably be dealing with seized bolts and a bunch of other nightmares. Im assuming with the increase in power the suspension may need to be upgraded as well? The stock 14s feel too small for grip even in turns that arent all that tight. Im thinking of going up to 16s but i dont know what suspension if any or lowering idk. Need some help on this...

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Drums--->Discs SPELLED OUT

2002 Civic Si kept the 4x100 bolt pattern. in 2003, they changed to a 5x114.3. That said, try and find a knuckle assembly from a 2002 Si

RSX e-brake cables will work, but it's a tight fit. You'll have to open up the supporting brackets to take up basically any slack in the line to get it to reach. EP3 (02-05 Si) e-brake cables are too short for the coupe/sedan.

sidenote: the knuckle assembly I bought came with snipped VSS. Found out by trial and error that the VSS from the drums do, in fact, fit and work properly in the disk knuckles.

If you're in canada (or have access to someone that can get you canadian car parts on the cheap), the 01-05 Acura 1.7EL knuckle assemblies and e-brake cables will swap right over.

To get the most out of the rear disc conversion, swapping out your brake proportioning valve with the EP3 one is advised. I didn't swap out the proportioning valve, and I ran like that until I called it quits on that car in 2017

I did this swap back in 2004 or so, one of the first mods I did on my 2002 civic, and it took me about 4-5 hours (probably closer to 4, actually) to do in my dad's driveway. I also didn't have very much mechanical experience at the time.

sidenote: The VSS from the drums, do, in fact, work in the disc assemblies. The knuckle assemblies I bought came with snipped VSS's, and I learned from trial and error, and the fact that I didn't feel like reversing the swap until I could order the sensors, that they not only fit, but give proper speed readings from the hub