Wankenstein

Yesh..but, the hard part: "low mileage used"

Wankenstein

I recieved a reply from MaxBore. I sent him your above statement along with my car's y/m/m, engine swap type and idle symptoms. Here's his reply:

"Not the case, your TB has ball bearings that do not wear out like bronze bushings. This is a common problem with old Hondas where the IACV is old and clogged letting to much air in because the piston inside the valve won't reach full travel to close. Cleaning it will make the problem a bit less but it will come back. The only permanent solution is a new IACV. If while cleaning the TB you removed the gunk around the butterfly, your TB is now leaking more vacuum that before and your idle should be even higher. I have been through the same issues with my Hondas."

My reply to his reply:
"It does occassionally have an intermiitent high idle. However, if I clean the TB inside and out the high idle goes away for a couple of months. I've cleaned the IACV and gasket/screen as well and have read that a failing/failed IACV is often related to idle problems. When I unplug the IACV the engine barely idles and will shut off after a short period. Also read many threads in which people did replace the IACV and it didn't solve their engine's idle issues. Might try a used IACV and TB from a U-pull yard and if it doesn't work then return for a refund."

ezone

I've not ever had extra old TBs to tear apart....Ball bearings, really?

I thought your issue was related to the throttle blade, it would wedge against the bore and stick closed?




Sounds like your IAC has a full range of operation at any rate.

Wankenstein

According to him.

When I pulled it off and cleaned it this past weekend (and two months ago) I didn't see any noticeable sticking when opening and closing the throttle blade. In the fully closed position there is a very small gap (bottom and top) between the TB cylinder wall and the throttle blade.. I read that this is normal and the blade is not meant to completely seal during the full-closed position: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...-idle-2364989/

Due to when unplugged it effects idle (lowers/stalls)?

also of note: Surging/hunting seems to be worse during hot weather

P.S. Just came across this thread: http://www.autoserviceprofessional.c...e-surge?Page=3
Could be the issue ..under TPS Changes heading

ezone

Right. (DNRTFA) That slight gap has to be there so it doesn't wedge the blade (closed) against the throttle bore and stick shut. It's a damn close fit, and carbon buildup is enough make them stick.
You said you cleaned it out but it still happened, so I figured a little wear might be what was making yours stick closed. (I assumed it is sticking closed, is that wrong?)
From post #1:
Hey, Richard..............Maybe I'm blind.
Did you make sure the cable adjustment provides sufficient slack to assure the throttle can close on its own?

Wankenstein

Allow me to rewind a bit.. When I purchased the car and even during test drives there was a surging idle that turned into a high idle and the quick fix was to use my foot to pull back on the gas pedal which brought idle back to normal or at least near normal with some minor surging. Within the first week after purchase I removed and cleaned the IACV and TB with throttle body cleaner. I also used a dental pick to carefully remove all carbon deposits on throttle blade, shaft near inner wall (bore), and wherever else the TB cleaner and brush couldn't remove it.

My assumption and thought process was buildup must be causing the throttle blade from fully closing on return from throttling and causing a high idle. I wasn't thinking or assuming that buildup could possibly prevent the blade from opening or sticking closed. After that first cleaning a couple months ago high idle was elimnated until last week when it returned. Unfortunately, the surging/hunting idle never fully stopped but did lessen in it's range from low (500 rpm) to slightly high (1100)..a/c off.

I cleaned the TB again this past weekend. It was still very clean but I lubed the spring last week with synthetic grease thinking it would help the throttle blade return to fully closed position and stop the recently returned high idle. Lubing it didn't help and after doing some research I learned the synthetic grease can attract more dirt and grime and cause further sticking. This inspired me to remove it and get it as clean as possible and hopefully stop the idle..whcih it has so far.

You read correctly..I wrote misleadingly. Sorry to be repetative but as I mentioned above: My assumption and thought process was buildup must be causing the throttle blade from fully closing on return from throttling and causing a high idle. I wasn't thinking or assuming that buildup could possibly prevent the blade from opening or sticking closed.

Yes.

ezone

Well....the pedal cannot actually pull the throttle closed, the throttle return spring has to do that job alone.

Something in the pedal and/or cable cause enough drag the return spring can't close the throttle blade without outside assistance?
Cable too tight? Gotta have free play.


Got more details? Ohhhh. Got a live data display you can drive around with?
Watch TPS voltage to see that the throttle returns to the same value each and every time the throttle closes.
EDIT: forgot, you don't. You could rig a voltmeter to watch it though (time consuming LOL)

Was reading along and was gonna say exactly what you learned. Also....Synthetic is irrelevant, dirt will stick to any grease.

Wankenstein

I forgot to mention that after the first TB cleaning I no longer need to pull the pedal back to reduce idle. I tried to pull pedal back last week during recent high idle and it had no effect.

Two months ago during first cleaning I removed the throttle cable from the mounting perch at the point where the cable bends (U-shape). I'm pretty sure that was causing the binding. It's been left unmounted since.

Unfortunately, no live data scanner.

Okay. will avoid from now on.

Wankenstein

I'm looking at this data scanner combination around $100 for BT adapter and software together:


Other option is Snap-On MT2500

ezone

Your car is not OBD2, those won't do any good unless they work with Hondas earlier communication protocol.

Your diag connector has only 3 terminals.

ALDL is GM-speak for their OBD1 diagnostic plug (assembly line data link), unless they say it will work on your car, it will not work on your car.
FWIW General Motors was light years ahead of everyone else when it came to providing techs with ECM data and bi-directional controls very early in the electronics game, many years before OBD2 was implemented.

I'm on a roll in goggle image search now, look out!
GM ALDL


OBDII



Honda OBD1 data link connector, right kick panel, 3 wires, blue connector shell



And a scary obsolete but very capable and fairly easy to use PGMFI tester....will be hard to find any that still work after all this time. (Honda OBD1 adapter cable not shown)




I don't have info on the Snappy unit and didn't look to see if it can do the early cars.

Wankenstein

Oh yea, we covered that a while ago.

Nice port ****.

okay.

Looking online can't find an Honda OBD1 data link adapter connector to mate with the Snap-On scanner

Wankenstein

Got the piston O-rings on and so far no leaking. I took some pics of the internals and plan to post soon. May do a write-up as well..give credit to the guy who posted the video.

I'm going to pull a TB and IACV (just in case) from local junkyard next time I go. Also, want to convert the cold-air intake back to air box.

The guy who painted my car either forgot or didn't bother to cover the condenser and radiator. The radiator is fine..just minor mist but, the paint/clearcoat on condenser is thick in a few spots. It's cooling well regardless but, may be less efficient now. I told him about and he's going to look at it this Saturday. I called a couple other body shops and they both told me it should be fine but, if I want to try to remove it ..use a condenser fin comb/separator.

Next project: install aftermarket manual steering rack (includes inner and outer tie rods + boots. After that hopefully will be done and can enjoy the damn thing rather than working on it .

Wankenstein

Prop valve is leakless so far.

I found this Hondash scanner on EBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD-Diagnostics-Bluetooth-Interface-Scanner-Honda-OBD1-OBD2A-3-Pin-Hondash-App-/152487523851?hash=item2380f6f60b:g:WjUAAOSw32lY2QI 0
Homepage: http://www.hondash.net/

I've noticed the engine oil has a gas smell and I'm thinking one or more fuel injectors may be leaking. I know I can disconnect, remove them, spray them in a bucket, and inspect o-ring for leaks. A proper OBD1 scan tool can also determine proper function correct?

Here's a read that states leaking injector symptoms: https://www.injectorrx.com/leaking-fuel-injectors/ and http://www.buyautoparts.com/howto/sy...-injectors.htm .Wondering if it could cause a hunting/surging idle?

ezone

Great! I'll alert the media.


That happens naturally sometimes and odor alone isn't conclusive evidence of a problem.

Is the oil level rising for no apparent reason?

Rub some of the oil between your fingers, does it feel slick? Or does it feel 'grainy'?

Got hard start, missing upon startup, black smoke, rich code?

Doubt injector problem. You could lift them out of the manifold and watch if they **** fuel after shutoff.
Check if pressure regulator is leaking fuel into the vacuum hose.
Looks quite interesting. If you get one, write and post a review here for people who have older cars or pre-OBD2 ECM.


Also Miloš Polakovič https://plus.google.com/118241279827353940025

Wankenstein

Oil isn't rising..hasn;t changed level since purchase four months ago.

Will try soon

Only on incline/decline and very occasionally (rarely) on level surface at operating temp. Doesn't seem to be missing on startup. No codes

Tomorrow going to start by pulling spark plugs and look for black soot buildup (rich). If none seen then may pull injectors.

Checked the pressure regulator last week and it was very dry, no gas smell.

Intend to e-mail him and ask a few questions. If checks out then will purchase.

Please setup an interview with this guy..lol:

ezone

Explain
If you just pull plugs after moving the car around in the driveway, the plugs will reflect you moving it around in the driveway (cold temp, rich and dark, ready to foul out and flood)


If you really want to set it up to read the plugs, go for a 95 MPH highway run for 5 miles, then kill the engine at highway speed and coast to a stop. Pull plugs to see what it was doing at the moment you killed the engine.
(actually just get it all warmed up to operating temp, go drive it around normally and and keep it there for a while, shut it off and pull plugs)


I'd be wanting to watch O2 sensor and fuel calculation corrections (trims) to see how rich or lean the computer thinks it is. I like to do as much diagnosing as I can from the comfort of the drivers seat.

That guy was an interesting story, then kinda fell off the radar.

facebook (dot) com/tedgoldenvoice/

Wankenstein

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...e-decline.html

Looks like I need to purchase that Hondash unit to hopefully make my life a bit easier. Between needing TPS voltages, fuel injector voltages, O2 sensor and other live data it'll be well worth $50 as long as it works properly.

ezone

OH ok. You have too many longass threads going here at once LOL

Wankenstein

Lol...I know,,I start with one or two issues in heading and end up with four or five by the end (if it ends ). Wierd, because I'm not much of a yakker in person.