DIY: Timing belt 96-00
11-02-2012
#31
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Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
So if/when I mess this up and rotate the cam or crank independently, what is the procedure for re-syncing them?
02-27-2017
#35
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Hi Civic fans. I have a 97 HX coupe that lost 10 mpgs after a timing belt change.
The mechanic insists he did everything right.
I don't understand how I could go from mid to upper 40's to 35, 38 highway.
Is there a trick to the D16Y5 engine tbelt/water pump replacement?
Thanks for any help. I want my mpgs back!
The mechanic insists he did everything right.
I don't understand how I could go from mid to upper 40's to 35, 38 highway.
Is there a trick to the D16Y5 engine tbelt/water pump replacement?
Thanks for any help. I want my mpgs back!
02-28-2017
#36
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
Hi Civic fans. I have a 97 HX coupe that lost 10 mpgs after a timing belt change.
The mechanic insists he did everything right.
I don't understand how I could go from mid to upper 40's to 35, 38 highway.
Is there a trick to the D16Y5 engine tbelt/water pump replacement?
Thanks for any help. I want my mpgs back!
The mechanic insists he did everything right.
I don't understand how I could go from mid to upper 40's to 35, 38 highway.
Is there a trick to the D16Y5 engine tbelt/water pump replacement?
Thanks for any help. I want my mpgs back!
A recheck of the work would seem to be in order.
If you can check ignition timing easily, it may be 10-20 degrees out of spec if the timing belt is mis-installed by just one tooth. Otherwise it may be quicker to pull the upper timing cover to verify alignment of the marks on the cam gear and balancer.
If the timing belt is verified installed correctly, then look for other causes of the economy drop.
02-28-2017
#37
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Thanks for the verry quick reply!
I am meeting with him tomorrow to convince him to go back in with this thread to make sure he works to spec.
This happened with my 92 VX too.
I am meeting with him tomorrow to convince him to go back in with this thread to make sure he works to spec.
This happened with my 92 VX too.
03-01-2017
#38
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I was hoping we would agree that having major maintenance done yielding worse performance being his responsibility.
His concern is 1, that he couldn't make a mistake 2, that t-belt replacement wouldn't affect mpgs. 3, that torque to spec every nut, bolt and belt isn't critical. And 4, he can't wrap his head around the efficiencies of the HX and VX even though I have proof of before and after performance.
He wants to be paid if nothing is wrong.
SO. I will obviously have to observe everything he does.
Question: should I "focus" on? just follow this procedure and make sure every single thing is to those specs? A Honda dealership tech said he'd over tightened the belt on my VX. They said they adjusted it, but as they didn't open it all the way it probably should be re-checked too.
I have a trusted, detail oriented, open-minded mechanic friend who will give the HX a thorough re-check for $200.
Last edited by Ilovemy97HX; 03-01-2017 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Oops
03-01-2017
#39
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
At the moment all you really need to do is confirm the mechanical timing (timing belt) is correct (or incorrect).
Do you own an ignition timing light or have one available?
Do you own enough tools to pull the valve cover and upper timing cover?
Do you have a service manual so you can do either of these yourself?
Do you own an ignition timing light or have one available?
Do you own enough tools to pull the valve cover and upper timing cover?
Do you have a service manual so you can do either of these yourself?
03-01-2017
#41
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
How much did the distributor have to be corrected?
Was the SCS jumpered before checking timing? (if not, this can cause erroneous setting)
Biggest problem I have with this is the distributor should never ever need adjusted (unless it gets removed or replaced). The dist has 3 hold down bolts so one would have to make 3 mistakes before they can adjust it.
If timing is "off" a lot, then the mechanical timing should have been checked first.
I'd say go ahead and Lift or remove valve cover, remove upper timing cover, check cam-crank timing.
Was the SCS jumpered before checking timing? (if not, this can cause erroneous setting)
Biggest problem I have with this is the distributor should never ever need adjusted (unless it gets removed or replaced). The dist has 3 hold down bolts so one would have to make 3 mistakes before they can adjust it.
If timing is "off" a lot, then the mechanical timing should have been checked first.
I'd say go ahead and Lift or remove valve cover, remove upper timing cover, check cam-crank timing.
03-01-2017
#43
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
In the shop I can have belt timing confirmed in.....probably 10 minutes or less.
Another few minutes to reassemble if it's OK.
A lot more time if it needs redone.
Tension set on the timing belt is part of the installation job.....not sure how one can----wait, nevermind.
It can be reset if needed.
Torque isn't the concern at the moment, but to go back and put a torque wrench on everything is gonna be time consuming, literally doing the whole job over again.
03-03-2017
#44
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Alrighty then. Thanks for your wry candor and good advice.
As far as the distributor being adjusted a little, he made very small adjustments, frequently re-checking with the light. He didn't unbolt it. I hope I'm describing it correctly.
This is my friend mechanic. Smart. Very detail oriented.
We'll open it up and look for the cam marks and tension adjustment as shown in the diy, correct?
As far as the distributor being adjusted a little, he made very small adjustments, frequently re-checking with the light. He didn't unbolt it. I hope I'm describing it correctly.
This is my friend mechanic. Smart. Very detail oriented.
We'll open it up and look for the cam marks and tension adjustment as shown in the diy, correct?
03-03-2017
#45
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
So how far off was the timing?
Is the distributor now adjusted (moved) to the end of its adjustment slots, or somewhere in the middle?
As I said before, if the timing belt was incorrect by a single tooth, the ignition timing would be be out of spec by probably 10 degrees or greater.
If the timing was within a couple degrees of spec (and the SCS was jumpered as per the ignition timing inspection procedure) then the timing belt should be on target,
but that can't tell you anything about the tension on the belt.
Is the distributor now adjusted (moved) to the end of its adjustment slots, or somewhere in the middle?
As I said before, if the timing belt was incorrect by a single tooth, the ignition timing would be be out of spec by probably 10 degrees or greater.
If the timing was within a couple degrees of spec (and the SCS was jumpered as per the ignition timing inspection procedure) then the timing belt should be on target,
but that can't tell you anything about the tension on the belt.
03-29-2017
#47
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The ignition timing isn't set yet.
As far as the belt inspection, he said someone had marked the crank pully on the wrong mark.
He will set the distribtor with the timing light in the next couple of days.
I sure hope this accounts for my mpgs....
My rpms at 60 mph are 2500. The engine feels like it doesn't relax on the highway.
As far as the belt inspection, he said someone had marked the crank pully on the wrong mark.
He will set the distribtor with the timing light in the next couple of days.
I sure hope this accounts for my mpgs....
My rpms at 60 mph are 2500. The engine feels like it doesn't relax on the highway.
Last edited by Ilovemy97HX; 03-29-2017 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Wrkng word
03-29-2017
#48
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
he said someone had marked the crank pully on the wrong mark.
There are probably multiple marks (notches) on the pulley. One is the TDC mark, and 3 more are ignition timing marks. 2 of the 4 are usually painted.
He will set the distribtor with the timing light in the next couple of days.
My rpms at 60 mph are 2500.
03-29-2017
#50
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03-29-2017
#51
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You mean the marks on the harmonic balancer pulley?
There are probably multiple marks (notches) on the pulley. One is the TDC mark, and 3 more are ignition timing marks. 2 of the 4 are usually painted.
Make SURE he knows about having to install a jumper wire in the SCS connector before trying to check ignition timing. If this isn't done, the timing will be set wrong.
I will. That sounds like an reset prodedure I have saved. I also found what look like shop manual specs for timing, both require jumping. Great.
RPM vs. speed is strictly a mechanical function of gear ratios. This will not change.
There are probably multiple marks (notches) on the pulley. One is the TDC mark, and 3 more are ignition timing marks. 2 of the 4 are usually painted.
Make SURE he knows about having to install a jumper wire in the SCS connector before trying to check ignition timing. If this isn't done, the timing will be set wrong.
I will. That sounds like an reset prodedure I have saved. I also found what look like shop manual specs for timing, both require jumping. Great.
RPM vs. speed is strictly a mechanical function of gear ratios. This will not change.
03-29-2017
#52
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
Specs for idle/timing/valve clearance may be on the emissions label on the hood or in the engine compartment.
03-29-2017
#54
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
Red mark should be your 12* (or 16*) BTDC timing mark.
03-29-2017
#55
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03-29-2017
#57
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
The cam pulley (top image), the slashes aligning with the surface of the cylinder head is the important part. The word UP is only there as a guide. (timing for cylinder #1 as opposed to cylinder #4 if the word were facing down)
On the crank pulley, the TDC mark is the exact same position as the TDC mark on the timing gear for the belt. TDC is TDC is TDC. If one only wants to confirm the belt timing is correct, lower pulley and cover removal is unnecessary. Simply align the TDC mark on the lower pulley with the pointer on the cover, then verify the cam gear slash marks align with the head surface. (the word UP must be somewhere near the top of course)
EDIT: Note those were random google images, not necessarliy exact for your particular engine
On the crank pulley, the TDC mark is the exact same position as the TDC mark on the timing gear for the belt. TDC is TDC is TDC. If one only wants to confirm the belt timing is correct, lower pulley and cover removal is unnecessary. Simply align the TDC mark on the lower pulley with the pointer on the cover, then verify the cam gear slash marks align with the head surface. (the word UP must be somewhere near the top of course)
EDIT: Note those were random google images, not necessarliy exact for your particular engine
03-30-2017
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The cam pulley (top image), the slashes aligning with the surface of the cylinder head is the important part. The word UP is only there as a guide. (timing for cylinder #1 as opposed to cylinder #4 if the word were facing down)
On the crank pulley, the TDC mark is the exact same position as the TDC mark on the timing gear for the belt. TDC is TDC is TDC. If one only wants to confirm the belt timing is correct, lower pulley and cover removal is unnecessary. Simply align the TDC mark on the lower pulley with the pointer on the cover, then verify the cam gear slash marks align with the head surface. (the word UP must be somewhere near the top of course)
EDIT: Note those were random google images, not necessarliy exact for your particular engine
On the crank pulley, the TDC mark is the exact same position as the TDC mark on the timing gear for the belt. TDC is TDC is TDC. If one only wants to confirm the belt timing is correct, lower pulley and cover removal is unnecessary. Simply align the TDC mark on the lower pulley with the pointer on the cover, then verify the cam gear slash marks align with the head surface. (the word UP must be somewhere near the top of course)
EDIT: Note those were random google images, not necessarliy exact for your particular engine
I'll have him walk me through it.
Does the CKF sensor come into play? I just happen to see it in the picture.
I also have two VX's to discuss. Same issue on my 92. New belt by my friend on the 95. Should I start another thread?
03-30-2017
#59
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: DIY: Timing belt 96-00
Does the CKF sensor come into play? I just happen to see it in the picture.
I also have two VX's to discuss. Same issue on my 92. New belt by my friend on the 95. Should I start another thread?
If it's the same issues caused by the same former mechanic who couldn't possibly make any mistakes, then fire away.
Simply align the TDC mark on the lower pulley
I sometimes use this method to figure out when the other pistons are at their tdc, since #2 and 3 have no corresponding timing marks.
09-27-2018
#60
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11. Don't worry if you're past TDC, we will take care of that later. What you DON'T want to do is to move the camshaft gear or crankshaft gear when the timing belt is OFF. So make damned sure you don't rotate them accidentally.
15. Before you Install CKF sensor and lower cover, check to make sure the upper mount bracket isn't loose. Tighten it and add locktit to bolts if it is.
Rotate camshaft pulley 5-6 turns, slowly, to make sure you did it properly. If it's okay, rotate an additional 3 teeth or more.
