Joe Hondaman

I know there's a ton of suspension question threads. But I was planning on lowering my 97 hatch after winter with some coilovers. I was thinking skunk2 Pro S or function and form type 1s. I heard both ride pretty well, was looking for any opinions or anything if anyone has tried either?
Also I've heard that if you lower even with top of the line coilovers, a camber kit is necessary and even then it still tilts your wheels in and ruins tires in about half the time. Is this true?

02civicsi02

Anytime you lower your car then you will need a camber kit. And no what you said is not true unless you leave your tires leaned out and not readjusting your camber. If you adjust your camber back to 0 then your tires will wear normal.

Joe Hondaman

Are camber kits expensive? Coilovers are crazy as it is. I was trying not to spend over 1000 on lowering. Is that possible to do a good job?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

eh.. expect to spend about a grand.. maybe a little more..

camber kits aren't too expensive.. well, relative to coilovers. They'll run you 150-200 bucks or so.

Depending on how low you wanna go, you can get a good spring/strut combo with a camber kit for less than a grand.

Joe Hondaman

I thought about just springs/struts but coilovers seem like the better option. For 1 just being adjustable is the biggest plus. I'm looking at Skunk2 Pro S's which are a little of $700, so I guess 150-200 for a camber kit wouldn't be bad. If I decide to not do it myself and take it somewhere I guess it'll throw the whole thing over a grand. Stock height never sounded so good

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I've had both setups, started with springs and struts, and was perfectly content with them. The only reason I switched to coilovers is because I caught a deal I couldn't pass up: Tein SS-P coilovers for $1250 shipped from LA, Cali to Saratoga Springs, NY.

I'll tell you this much, with as much dirt and grime that can build up on coilovers, adjusting them can be a royal pain in the ***. I adjusted my car up ¼" so it would stop eating my front fender linings, and I had to set aside an entire day, plus a bit the next day for a proper alignment afterwards. My adjustable dampering is nice and easy though. It's just rotating a **** on the top of the strut.

That day consisted of removal, cleaning them, wd-40ing all the crap out of 'em, more cleaning, adjustment, installing, check height, adjust if necessary, re-check height, move on to next one, repeat, recheck both completed, re-adjust, repeat, blah blah blah..

As far as installing them goes, it's not too hard. removing tie rod ends from the front struts always proves to be the hardest part for me, and even with the proper tool it's still a pain in the ***.

If you're worried about not being experienced enough, I did my first suspension swap (tein s-tech springs on stock struts and rear camber kit installation) when I was 17 in my dad's driveway with nothing more than some tools, a hydraulic jack, jack stands, a DIY guide, and my equally inexperienced 15 year old friend.

Joe Hondaman

Thanks for the advice.
I'm not all too shabby on working on my car - I'm not anywhere near knowledgeable on cars but I can usually get the hang of things and when I get stuck luckily my dad is pretty experienced with vehicles. I've just heard you need A LOT of patience and time to do it yourself. Might just get a quote from a shop, not sure yet haha.

I've always heard people say coilovers over springs and struts - saying coilovers were more solid of a ride (mainly because most people get cheap springs and strut setups).

The only real question I have on springs and struts is height - they're not all too adjustable right? It's basically throw them on and the car settles to its height, unlike coilovers where when you install them you can go lower or higher?

Also you said you're up in saratoga springs? I'm from Binghamton, i'm pretty sure our winters are pretty much the same. You have any issues driving lowered too far in the snow?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I was stationed there for 6 months, at the Navy Nuclear training facility in Ballston Spa, from November 2004 to May 2005. I rode lowered (adjusted 1" higher than the lowest setting) throughout the entire winter on the coilovers with 17" rims and Nitto NeoGen tires with ZERO problems. I almost got stuck in my driveway once, but that was about it. I'm now out of the Navy and since moved back to Las Vegas.

As far as "more solid ride," I don't really recall too much a difference. I think it's because I can't really compare the ride between the two, simply because I can adjust the dampering rate of my coilovers to give me a stiffer/softer ride.

Joe Hondaman

Thanks for the help - clearing up some gray areas I had.
Now I just have to decide what I want to spend all that money on haha

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Which is the question all of us have when it comes to choosing parts

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

it's a 97, so front camber kits are much more expensive
Also, what kill tires is toe, not camber.
Camber will upset the car behaviour in corners at the limit, but considering the OP's questions, this is not an issue to him.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I'm still used to this site being a 7thgen-only site

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I die a little bit on the inside every time I remember that this is an "all civic generations" site now. Thats the main reason I can't find the will to scrape my "7thgencivic.com" stickers off my rear quarter windows, gd sentimental attachment. lol

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Hey, I still think someday i will get a 6th gen, they could be transformed to monsters!

Joe Hondaman

Anything that will upset the car's behavior is an issue to me. I'm a noob to suspension.
Some people told me camber kits were not necessary and others said camber kits were necessary.
I'm just lost, and I want to do it right so I don't have any problems down the road.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

like i said, it will happen mostly at the limit and mostlyy noticeable if you do some sort of racing, likely autoX or track racing (drag racing is excluded).
In normal driving, it will only happen during sudden change of direction, like when your neighbour's dog happily crosses the road in front of you.
Not having a rear camber kit will make your car more understeer, meaning it will tend to go straight instead of turning (it will still turn, but less than stock) - understeer is more controllable for normal drivers, though.
Oversteer is the opposite. It will make the rear rotate and you could spin and it's mroe dangerous if you don't have the skiils to keep the car in control.
So, no, no need for you to worry about upsetting the suspension.
You might want to install so it will wear more evenly, but it will not happen overnight. What kills tires overnight is incorrect toe.

Joe Hondaman

Alright how hard is it to install camber kits (both front and rear).
I'm thinking it's probably a good idea just to take the car to a shop and have them do everything - drop, camber, alignment - and have everything done at once.
You were a bit vague on whether rear kit was necessary. My car doesn't have power-steering so would putting a rear camber kit on make it more difficult to steer?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

look for the prices for your civic in skunk2 homepage and just decide if it is worth the price. Like i said before, you car the price for the fronts is much higher than the price for the 7th gen like my car.
And just forget about the understeer or oversteer. Also, that does not have much to do with the steering system. It's about car reaction.
Ah, your car needs both or none, front and rear. not a matter of choice, if you do one, you will need both.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Since you still have not checked, (which is the first thing to do...) here.
Bottom of the page.
207 + 160 front/rear.
http://www.procivic.com/pages-main_p...mber-kits.html
If you willing to pay for them, feel free. If not, maybe a 80k tire will be over in 70k miles.
But naturally you will need to align the car after install.

Joe Hondaman

Thank you for the link/prices!
Kind of steep, but it sounds like it's probably worth it to do camber kits, I guess it's not all too large of a price compared to the actual lowering cost.
Now I have to decide on how I want to lower and what brand.
xRiCeBoYx said his past spring and strut setup was good for him, so maybe save some cash and do that instead of coilovers. Coilovers still catch my eye because the adjustable aspect.
I think if I were to go coilover route I'd go with Function and Form Type 1s I hear they're good - I've read skunk2 is are decent but there's better. Price for the two of them is pretty similar.
Too much deciding to do and I don't want to make a decision and not be happy with the ride

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

good lucky!
I kept the drop around 1", did not go for much, I wanted the compliance.

Joe Hondaman

do springs/struts only get bouncy the lower you go?
I only plan on dropping around 1.5" - 2" AT MOST but probably not even that low

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

bouncyness will happen when shocks are bad. If the shocks are designed for the springs and lowering and the bumpstops are designed for that, no issues. Complete kits should not be a problem if minimum quality is considered.

Joe Hondaman

Replacing springs,struts,shocks= comfortable enough ride for saving a few hundred?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

?
did not understand question

Joe Hondaman

sorry. my question was if I get a complete setup with springs, stuts, shocks and get camber kit and save a few hundred than just getting full coilovers it'll be pretty comfortable?
I saw a eibach package with springs,struts,sway bars for like 600, camber kit would be around another 200 so I'd be paying around 800 instead of about 800 for coilovers and another 200 for camber kit

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Ah, I was unsure if you meant replacing with stock or else.
Well, the ride will be stiffer (I honestly don't mind, the stock for me is too soft).
You will feel more the bumps, but it is just right (for me - everyone have a different opinion of what is unconfortable - different butt-o-meters, i guess ).
And you forget that in your case the camber kits will be around 400 with taxes, shipment, etc.
If you do only the springs and shocks (no height adjustability), it will be recommendable to also change the top mounts (there are chances they will start cluncking or squeacking or else).
Also, I believe the kit from eibach comes with KYB AGX - they are fine for me, but most recommends the tokiko blues when lowering.
Also, you can leave the sway bars for later. I took them out, placed the stock bar back in front and a huge progress bar in the rear.

Joe Hondaman

Thanks for all the help man, appreciate it - i'm obviously VERY un-knowledgeable on suspension. Got a lot of decisions to make regarding this. Whether I get around to doing it next month, during winter, or after winter, i'll be posting some pictures hopefully with my ideally looking/comfortable drop!