MikeRoePhonics

Hi, everybody! This is my first post here.

I've owned my 1998 Honda Civic LX 4-door coupe for almost 20 years, with zero electrical/battery problems until last week. 168,800 miles. Stock everything except the radiator. I installed a new Dorman window regulator in my driver's side door on 9/10/2018. About 16 hours later, I turned my car on for the first time since the regulator installation. Headlamps and gauge cluster lamps were noticeably dimmed during the commute. The engine sounded weird, which I believe is due to insufficient spark on the spark plugs. I figured I left the key in the ignition for too long while running the window up and down to grease its side rails. My battery lamp is now faintly illuminating & slowly flickering, but it's only visible at night, as it is very faint.

Here's a summary of the key points:
- The engine now sounds and feels fine. Acceleration feels correct. This is on 9/17/2018.
- The battery is an 11-month old Duralast Gold from Autozone.
- Alternator is the original from 1998. It sounds fine and the belt appears to be moving correctly.
- When I idle in Drive 4 (D4), the battery lamp is the most visible. When the rear brake lamps are on, the battery lamp becomes a bit brighter. The same is true for using the power window motors.
- When I accelerate, the battery lamp goes off immediately and stays off while in motion, so the alternator is at least doing something.

- I had Autozone test the battery & charging system 4 separate times over the last week. The first test said "check connections", the second, third and fourth tests passed 3 of the diagnostics, but on the fourth test the Autozone rep ran an additional alternator diagnosis which he said many people neglect to run (I forgot its name.) This fourth diagnosis said "diodes are worn" or something close to that. He told me the diodes inside the alternator are worn, causing the alternator to send AC to the battery, instead of DC, and that the AC is causing the faint glow on the battery lamp.

- Today, on 9/17/2018, I took the car to a local shop which offered a free inspection. Within 10 minutes, the mechanic came back with the Midtronics MDX-200 series ticket, which says all tests passed. Here's its test info:

Battery Test:
"Good Battery"
- Volts: 13.12V
- Measured: 602CCA
- Rating: 500CCA
- Battery Type: Regular flooded

Starter Test:
"Cranking Normal"
- Cranking: 11.39V
- Time: 0.73S

Charging Test:
"No Problems"
- No Load: 14.25V
- Loaded: 13.94V

- The mechanic said it could be the ELD (electronic load detector) inside the engine bay's fuse box, which I also considered after doing some research on it. That's an easy replacement, if needed.

- Both the Autozone rep and shop mechanic believe this is NOT a parasitic draw due to the new window regulator, or otherwise, but I'm still not 100% certain. I know it could be purely coincidence, but owning the car for almost 20 years with zero electrical problems and then within a day of the regulator installation, having the battery lamp turn on is leaving me with a shadow of doubt, despite the shop's test. I removed the #11 fuse underneath the dash to disable the driver's window and the battery lamp still glows.

Did the shop not do a comprehensive enough test on the alternator and/or battery? The shop mechanic doesn't think it's the diodes, but Autozone's rep and measurement tool both do. He handed me my ticket and got up to head back to the shop after his free test, so I can't imagine he would have made an error in judgment when it would mean lost revenue for his shop. I told him I needed an oil change and transmission flush, so he went ahead with those. So I don't feel cheated or anything, just confused.

Sorry for the long post. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

ezone

You haven't replaced the alternator yet? Sounds like it's ready for one.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I wonder if you put a volt meter on the battery if you could measure the AC voltage?

ezone

Replace the alternator already.

Or if you have a super reputable rebuilder in your area maybe they can rebuild it cheaper than buying an alternator from a parts store, and hopefully it will still be higher quality than an alternator from a parts store. .

MikeRoePhonics

Should I just bite the bullet and get the genuine Honda alternator? The shop I went to yesterday said they can get it from the dealer directly. It'll be about $600 to install, but I hopefully won't have to worry about it for a long time.

Otherwise, I heard Napa has the best aftermarket alternators. They carry AC Delco, Denso and Bosch. I heard Autozone's Gold alternators are prone to failure and don't even want to bother with that.

ezone

I was just implying I expect the flickering warning light to be caused by the alternator, because the alternator controls that light.

HOWEVER they can and do have a known wiring issue that might be starting to happen, it rubs one wire which ends up blowing a fuse, setting a bunch of codes AND makes the alternator stop charging until the fuse is fixed.

Read this bulletin PDF LINK: https://www.justanswer.com/uploads/l...fuse_blows.pdf




The original alternator was made by mitsubishi according to a parts catalog
How long does the alternator need to last? How long do you expect to be keeping the car?
Are you in the rust belt? Will the car rot away before it breaks?

MSRP for reman unit through Honda dealer would be about 475 (check online Honda dealers such as Majestic or Bill Kay for wholesale pricing if you want to DIY) for just the part.
Is it worth that price?

MikeRoePhonics

Thanks a lot for the service bulletin link! Earlier today I was reading a thread you posted in with a link to it which is not longer active. I saved the PDF and will take a look at it today.

I'm in Eastern Iowa and would like to keep the car for as long as possible. It's been good to me, minus some problems with the hood and door cables, but the critical components have fared well over the years.

MikeRoePhonics

Fuse #15 under the dash appears normal, however, it's 10A instead of 7.5A. I've never changed it, so it was installed that way. No speedometer problems, like others have reported with this issue. I got underneath the car to check out the C115 connector. The black and yellow cables appear to be OK. The other cables are covered in heat shrink. It's a tight space and I didn't have time tonight to remove the intake manifold bracket. I'll take a closer look over the next few days. I bought some electrical tape and corrugated tubing to wrap around it, if needed.

Here are some nice photos detailing the problem described in the Honda Service Bulletin you posted:
https://sparkys-answers.com/2009/04/...use-blown.html

I went to Autozone & O'Reilly's today to request a computer code check but they both told me the code device works if the 'check engine' lamp is on, which isn't in my case.

A few battery lamp questions:
1.) Is the battery lamp uniquely powered by the alternator or could it be lit by other sources?

2.) Could the battery lamp be an indication of either an undercharged or overcharged battery? The reason I ask is the 'brake' lamp has two meanings, as I discovered a few years ago: emergency brake is on, or brake line pressure is too low. My battery seems to have a slightly high charge, according to the shop mechanic. Perhaps the alternator's voltage regulator has/is going bad, causing high battery voltage?

ezone

Codes can be stored without the CEL on.
However, if your fuse has not blown YET don't bother with codes.

A power wire briefly making contact with unwanted ground will only cause little drops in voltage to connected devices, until it pulls enough current (shorts) long enough to blow the fuse.

AFTER that fuse is blown then everything connected to that circuit quits working, codes set, and alternator completely stops charging.

The warning light is not POWERED by the alternator, it is GROUNDED by the alternator. More specifically, the voltage regulator inside the alternator controls that.

No, but a failing alternator can overcharge the battery.
I'm not even sure your battery is overcharged.We aren't talking about that light. In addition, some cars actually have that light connected to even more than just brake stuff. What I said



Try this
Get it to act up (light flickering)
Unplug the 4 wire connector from the back of the alternator.
Did the warning light quit flickering?

99stockcivic

Ran into something similar. Replaced my stereo, and discovered the next day the flickering battery light. Replacing the alternator fixed everything. I bought a new one, not rebuilt. I would suspect with the age of the car, it's the alternator. I think it doesn't get detected because it's right on the edge of still functioning in "normal" range, but it's really at the bottom of that range.