eager2learn

http://imgur.com/a/JdJDP

i think my rotors are rubbing against the inner-cap...if i took out the inner crap and drove around...what would happen...

(what is the function of the inner cap anywas...my dizzy cap+o-ring should do a fine job of keeping dust and stuff out....)

Aso tried to ge ta freeze frame log...nada........................................ .................................................. ..................................

Wankenstein

Recheck spark plug wiring .. maybe you have them crossed on the distributor, plugs or both.

eager2learn

k i had them crossed everywhere. lets see if the cel will come back

Wankenstein

Actually, I meant to say check firing order. Check firing order.

eager2learn

okay my firing order was off as well...lets see how this week goes thanks

eager2learn

car is still boggin down on me....when car is warmed up and i start it again....is it my igniter?

eager2learn

my firing order is all fine...here's my freeze frame data

eager2learn

Freeze frame report generated by Torque for Android
================================================== =======

Vehicle VIN: Not present
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: Not present

Freeze frame information:
------------------
Fuel Status = 0 byte
Engine Load = 40 %
Engine Coolant Temperature = 143.6 °F
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term = 1.562 %
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term = -5.469 %
Intake Manifold Pressure = 5.802 psi
Engine RPM = 921 rpm
Speed (OBD) = 0 mph
Intake Air Temperature = 127.4 °F
Throttle Position(Manifold) = 9.412 %

eager2learn

unless the firing order in the manual is incorrect???

1342

it goes clockwise 1342......right???

ezone

No. The car would stall with NO SPARK if the igniter was bad.



Does it run good while cold?

Then runs bad when it's almost warmed up?
Get it warmed up and running bad then ohm check each injector while it's still hot?

Wankenstein

Yes. Did you clear the codes with data scanner or perform an ECU reset by disconnecting negative terminal from the battery after you got the firing order correct? If so, did the codes return?

Follow Ezone's suggestion. Also here's a related thread (unfortunately, with no follow-up): http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/baffling-engine-problem-when-reaching-operating-temperature.227051/
Also, what's your o2 sensor voltage readings?

eager2learn

runs good while cold yeah and runs good, idles goods, its just starts up wonky when warm...

ill try to get back with test results...i have a lot of hw rn

Wankenstein

Next time it has trouble starting at operating temp
Try starting it at WOT ..pedal to floor. Might be a flooding issue.?

eager2learn

WOT? Okay...also how do u want me to test o2 sensors? idle @ 2.5k rpm?

eager2learn

what readings should i look for? the same as in the youtube videos or somehting more specific

Wankenstein

WOT: Wide Open Throttle. With fuel injected engines when the gas pedal is pressed to the floor it disables the fuel injectors and allows the maximimum amount of air in during ignition. Designed this way to combat a situation in which there is fuel flooding in the cylinders.

If your data-scanner doesn't have a video capturing mode you can download an app named Mobizen that will capture it. Upload a mobizen video of your data scanner's o2 sensor readings from cold start to operating temp at idle on to Youtube and then post that youtube link in your next reply. Oxygen sensors start reading when they are heated up to around 600 degrees farenheight (they have an internal heating element) so from cold start it takes a minute or so before they start reading. Here's a good read on o2 sensor function: http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/u...en_sensors.asp

Ideally your o2 sensor's readings will be between .1 and .9 volts and short term: ST (o2 fuel correction) and long term LT (o2 fuel correction) OR on your scanner shown as Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term and Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term will be within negative 10% to positive 10% of zero. Here's a good read on fuel trims: http://www.aa1car.com/library/what_is_fuel_trim.htm I have recently been reading and learning about o2 sensor and fuel trim readings myself due to a recent lean condition my engine was experiencing. Thankfully Ezone helped me out a lot and we got it solved.

In your engine's case o2 sensor and fuel trim reading may help point to a potential lean or rich condition that may be the reason for starting (ignition) difficulty at operating temps.

Wankenstein

Refer to test #2 in this link: http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/hon...el-injectors-1

Models DX/LX/CX have saturated 190cc fuel injectors
Models EX/SI have saturated 240cc fuel injectors

Readings at operating temp should be somewhere between 12 to 16 ohms but refer to the service manual for listed specs. I have saturated 240cc's on mine and all four injectors read 12.5 ohms. I believe what Ezone is looking for is consistent readings on all four that don't fall below 12 ohms. Lower readings implies weak or failed injectors.

ezone

This and only this.
I don't really need to know a spec if I'm doing a comparison check

O2 sensors have nothing to do with starting.

Wankenstein

Looks like I have some more learning to do. Damn I wasted all those words too

ezone

Ya, an O2 sensor can't sense a damn thing until it is HOT, therefore they are completely ignored by the computer (open loop) until they are hot enough to become active. (methods for determining this vary)

Heated primary O2 sensors usually come on line within about 30 seconds (depending on starting temp), whereas older single wire sensors (no internal heater) have to be heated solely by exhaust flow so they could take a lot longer to become active.

If an unheated sensor is located far away from the engine the sensor can actually cool off enough to stop working while the engine idles.
Pre-95 4.3L GM Vortec comes to mind..

Wankenstein

Makes sense. Even at operating temp starts 190-210 F..it still isn't hot enough to enable the o2 sensor without it's internal heater doing the rest of heating.

ezone

O2 sensor generally needs to be 600+*F and higher before it starts working, some run closer to 1k*F.

Some manufacturers use temperature compensation as well, because internal resistance can change as temperature varies.

eager2learn

Okay guys....no injector readings but something interesting happened...

I drove my car to school. I parked it for an hour. I came back to it...and it didn't start!

It would crank but it wouldn't start over!!

Okay...so did a WOT start...I held the gas pedal to the floor and cranked...and nothing!!

I tried several more attempts and still nothing....

So I waited for an hour...I prayed to God for a spark...

I held the gas pedal to the floor, cranked, and mashed the pedal and sure enough my engine came to life!!! What the #@$!

So I drove home wondering what the @$#@ just happened.

I parked in my driveway. Turned off my car. And turned it back on and it cranks over like normal.

I waited till night time for my engine to fully cool down then I went to my car to start it again see if it'll start up and it starts up normally! I drove it around the block until normal operating temperature and drove back home. Turned off my car, turned it back on and it starts up normally! What the #@$@.

Now it is Saturday, today. I went outside in the morning to start up my car and it starts up normally. I drove around the block and then home then turned off my car then turned it back on and it starts normally.

I waited till afternoon to try again and I went outside to start my car and it's giving me the same issues. Start up really funky, then charges up. It starts fine after I drive it around but what the @#$# happened at my school parking lot?

I scoured the internet.

Oldschool funk says it's something about my fuel pulse...and it should resolve itself...something like that (he just replaced the ICM on his Honda because it also had a crank no start issue.) @25:15 mark.


I also noticed my Dizzy was missing the blue wire going to the right of the ICM as in this picture:

http://imgur.com/a/oINC2

My dad's 99 civic ex 5 spd has that wire so maybe it's just for 5spd vehicles because it didn't have it when I took it apart.

I'm going to wait to get paid before I buy my multimeter. Hang tight guys....and apparently I don't need to test my o2 sensors?

Also, I'm thinking maybe my ICM is funky and giving funky sparks. OR maybe my wiring is bad (I used speaker wires)

ezone

Have you ever replaced the main relay?

eager2learn

? Which one?

ezone

The main relay.



Or stripped it apart and resoldered everything

eager2learn

Is there a way for me to test it?

eager2learn

I also have 4 of those black main relax plugs located in my fuse box next to the battery...1 more heater fan...condenser fan...clutch...and...1 more forgot the name.

ezone

When necessary, I do dynamic testing to evaluate operation.

Refer to the pictures in my previous reply. There is only one PGMFI main relay in the car.

eager2learn

The solder points look fine to me...

https://i.imgur.com/2220yGv.jpg



but I resoldered every point anyways...my 1st time....i think i covered whatever cracks there was...(I just melted the solder wires on top of everything and let it cover everything while touching the tip of my solder on the points)

https://i.imgur.com/icWeUra.jpg

I also replaced the ICM...and its still starting up wonky....maybe i soldered incorrectly and shud replace my pgm-fi main relay...also my cel all cylinders misfire came back...