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So I was trying to identify an oil leak and a mechanic friend told me that it was likely the crank shaft seal (due to drops of oil on the bottom cover). So I took all the drive belts off plus the crank wheel and the plastic engine covers. There was no oil leak coming from the front of the engine but when putting everything back together I didn't torque the crank wheel (harmonic balancer) enough. So when I started driving my engine was making funny noises. So I identified the problem and even though the woodruff key (placement pin) was chewed up - I managed to put everything back together ok. The car drives fine now but the engine sounds like there's a hole in the exhaust, only the noise is coming from the engine. There's a noise present that wasn't there before I took everything off. The noise happens when I accelerate. There's no problems with how the car drives. The alternator & power steering belts may be slightly loose ? The air con belt feels like its tight enough.
Can anyone help me identify the cause of the noise ? The noise sounds like exactly like there's a hole in the exhaust. It sounds slightly like a diesel engine (although not very much - the hole in the exhaust sound is closer). I don't know if i'm worrying over nothing since the engine is running fine ?
I've no idea whats causing this ???
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated...
Cheers,
John.

 
Rep Power: 519

I can't hear anything from here.
Did you get everything tight?
Use a stethoscope to pinpoint the source of the noise?


Is the oil filler cap missing?

 
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LOL - I don't have a stethoscope unfortunately.
Everything is back in place. I will give the belts another tighten this evening and see if anything changes. Maybe i'm over analysing it or something. I don't know !

 
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Sure you do. A long screwdriver held to your ear, or a wooden dowel can suffice.
How about take them all off so you can tell if the noise is coming from one of the accessory drives?

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EDIT: I was thinking of a different thread, ignore the removed stuff

 
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I'll give it a go with the long screw driver.
If I take the belts off will the car still run ?
I reckon the noise is coming from the actual engine itself. Although its hard to say as I can only hear it when I'm sitting in the car. I can't hear any noise at all when I have the car idling and I am looking at the engine with the bonnet up. I will ask a friend to sit in the car and hit the gas and see if I can identify the source of the noise.
Thanks for help.
John.

 
Rep Power: 519

It does not need AC or power steering at all for the engine to run.

It can run for a while without the alternator belt......until you run the battery down.

 
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So i took the front passenger side wheel off to check the belts and i've discovered that the noise is coming from the harmonic balancer (crank wheel). I've no idea whats causing the noise - the car is working fine, i've done 100s of K's with the car making this noise. Plus there's no lights coming on for battery or any of that.
I checked the crank bolt and its tight.
Could i have somehow damaged the crank wheel by my previous effort of not tightening the crank bolt enough ? Have you any idea of a solution/fix for the noise ?
I don't see how the crank wheel could be damaged. Although the actual end of the crank shaft where the woodruff key (placement pin) goes has been chewed away !
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.

 
Rep Power: 519

You posted your thread in 6th gen, but what car is this, specifically?



See if the
crank pulley might be rubbing the timing cover,
timing cover deformed and bowed,
crank pulley outer ring wobbles while running
outer ring of the crank pulley has loosened due to deterioration of the bonded rubber sandwich.

 
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Its an Australian 99 GLi civic. D16Y4 Engine. EK1 model. SOHC.
I checked and the balancer is indeed rubbing off the lower cover. I don't know if i put the cover on incorrectly or if the balancer itself is damaged ? I'll have to take it apart to have a better look at it. The noise is actually getting worse now. It looks like the balancer maybe vibrating a bit too much ? What would cause this ? How do i know if the balancer is damaged ?
I may need to get a new balancer.
**** !

 
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Also, the noise gets less when i put my foot on the clutch !

 
Rep Power: 519

Barring some odd misassembly of the pulley to the crankshaft end.......


Are you familiar with the construction of a harmonic balancer?

Inner section, outer section and a rubber strip between them...If the rubber strip deteriorates the outer ring can move or it comes loose.

Extreme cases:




You could draw a simple chalk line across yours, across the inner and outer sections with one straight line.
Then run the engine, drive it, use the AC, then come back and see if the line is still straight as you drew it, or if the outer ring has moved.

You could remove the accessory belts and grab the outer ring of the pulley, and push-pull to see if it moves.




Measure crankshaft end play.

 
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Thanks, I'll try that trick with the chalk line. Don't know much about the end play. I googled it and it seems quite complicated. This is all quite new to me. lol. I wouldn't mind but the car was working fine until I tried to "fix" it !

 
Rep Power: 519

Ok then revisit the work you just did,

most likely the cover is warped or bowed and rubbing the pulley
.......or something got misassembled?

I've used a heat gun on plastic covers before, but gotta be careful with it. It's too easy to go "way too much".

 
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Thanks for all your help Ezone. Its much appreciated.
So i took the crank wheel off this evening and had a look at whats going on in there. I recall that when i first loosened the crank bolt that the crank wheel was stuck tight. It wouldn't move. Would it be fair to say that the inside of the crank wheel and the actual crankshaft are supposed to be a snug fit ?
Cause if they're supposed to be tight then thats my problem. When i place the crank wheel on the shaft there's about 1mm of give in either the left or right direction. The crankwheel musn't be centred properly onto the crank shaft ?
I've taken photos of the inside of the crank wheel and also the crank shaft. I tried to take photos of the gap between the wheel and shaft but was unsuccessful.
If the problem is due to the inside of the crank wheel worn out is there anyway of fixing it that doesn't involve ordering a new crank wheel ?

 
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Also, as you can see in the attached pic, i bought a new woodruff key. Would you recommend that i use liquid weld to attach the key to the end of the crank wheel ?

 
Rep Power: 519

Well that would explain the wobble at least.

If that pulley has had the hole worn, then correspondingly, the end of the crank where it fits may also be worn.
The key was beat to death from the loose pulley.

This looks like what happens when one runs the engine with the big crank bolt loose (not tight enough = loose).

You might look to see if the keyway for the crank timing gear also has been beat out.

See how well the new crank pulley fits. It should slip on, but have zero play.

 
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Yes this was all caused by me not tightening the crank bolt enough when I took it apart. I'll buy a new crank wheel and see how it goes. I'll post an update. If this doesn't work then I don't know what i'll do. I had a look at the end of the crank shaft and it doesn't look like its been worn, apart from where the keyway was chewed out. I'm hoping all the wearing was done on the inside of the crank wheel. We'll see I guess...
Not sure about the timing gear. I haven't even touched it so it should be fine ?
Cheers.

 
Rep Power: 519

Well, since the crank bolt and pulley are what clamps the timing gear down, take a close look at the keyway slot and key on that timing gear. See if they show signs of beating.

Keeping the timing gear in the correct timing position is probably more important than getting the balancer pulley in the right position.

If the cam timing is off by more than a couple degrees, performance suffers.

If the only crank pulley timing mark is off by a few degrees, the engine won't care one bit---- until someone decides to check ignition timing and think it needs adjusted, it will be wrong..

 
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I never touched the actual timing belt itself. So i'm hoping the timing gear should be still ok ? Its a bit of a job to take the whole thing apart, and i'm hoping to drive the car to the airport on sat morning. So i'll try the new harmonic balancer that I got today and if it is a snug fit i'll see how it goes.....

 
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So i've fitted the new harmonic balancer and it fitted very snugly onto the crank shaft. I had a look at the timing belt drive pulley and it also looks fine. The car now sounds absolutely fine. Which is fantastic. Thanks !
The only problem is that the timing belt drive plate was put on the crank wheel after the timing belt drive pulley was put on. So basically i've sandwiched the drive plate between the crank wheel and the timing pulley (instead of sandwiching it between the timing pulley and the engine block).
I got the timing belt replaced 116000 Ks ago which means that my drive plate has been in the wrong place for a pretty long time. But i'm due to do a timing belt change anyways so i'll fix that up when i get back from holidays.
I've read in another thread that its not good for the guide plate to be in the wrong place.
And to top it off i see that there's engine coolant leaking out of the top seal of the radiator. I guess a 16 year old car with 300K plus Ks on it is going to fall apart sooner or later....

 
Rep Power: 519

EDIT: Co-worker just asked, "What did you do, use freekin magic? Did you teleport the new seal in?" LOL



Um.... even if you didn't replace it, that counts as touching it.

Sounds like you got it assembled wrong, and you NEED to take it apart again to correct it before it destroys the timing belt and gets real expensive.

If smashing the guide plate has caused it to flatten out, it needs replaced.
Pay attention to which way the plate is supposed to face. If it's backwards it can shred the belt.
If the belt has started to shred, it needs replaced.
Don't forget to tighten the big bolt this time!

 
Rep Power: 211

IIRC: the crankshaft bolt spec is tighten to 14 ft/lbs with torque wrench and then turn/tighten the crankshaft bolt another 1/4 turn (90 degrees).

I tighten to 14 ft/lbs and then use an oil based sharpie to mark noon position on crankshaft bolt. I put a mark at the 3 o'clock (1/4 turn) position on the block and then turn/tighten then crankshaft bolt so the mark on the bolt meets the mark on the block.
I'm a fat-*** and using a 3 foot breaker bar + 2 foot metal extension tubing + bearing down all my weight on breaker/extension (breaker bar a bit above parallel to ground).. it gets to the proper FSM spec.

 
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Cheers for the advice guys. Yes I tightened the crank bolt last night and drove for 50Ks on the highway. I'll tighten it again tonight. Don't want an accident on the way to the airport in the morning.
I got as far as removing the bottom cover on the timing belt but didn't actually touch it. It looked fine but then again I didn't take it off to have a proper look at it. The guy who did the job for me is a qualified mechanic so I don't know !

 
Rep Power: 519

Qualified or not, is this still assembled incorrectly? If it is, it's a problem that needs corrected ASAP.

 
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So I just found this diagram of a 99 civic online on: http://www.carenginediagrams.com/199...e-diagram-268/

Looks like I can stop panicking because there's two plates ?

This diagram of the engine is different to the one that was uploaded to this site on this thread: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...t-96-00-a.html In that thread the diagram of the civic engine has only 1 plate ?

Jeez. Now its just getting more confusing... I guess the only way I can be 100% certain that there is 2 plates on the car is to take it apart. The diagram that I've attached to this thread shows only 1 woodruff key where my car appears to have a key for both the crank and timing belt pulleys.

 
Rep Power: 519

The best way to stop panicking IMO is to figure out for certain what parts are really on your engine.

Your first link above this looked to me like the style of timing components the US had in 1995 and earlier, prior to the introduction of OBD2 (5th gen Civics).

The link to this forum shows an engine version used for early OBD2 (96-00, 6th generation Civics here).


All my info is for US spec cars, I have no way of getting info for cars in your market.

Can you find an online parts catalog from any Honda dealerships in your market (Australia) ?


Got pictures of your actual timing gear and stuff?

If your crank gear does not have a cast-in belt guide on one side, it will (probably) use 2 stamped guide plates as in your diagram link.

If it has a cast-in guide on one side, it must face the correct direction, and the open side must have a belt guide of some sort.
(I've seen some manufacturers use the harmonic blalancer as a timing belt guide too)

The North American version engine in that year (99) used a crank timing gear with one cast in guide plate that incorporated a set of reluctor teeth for the CKF sensor, which was used for misfire detection. See the shop manual page 6-20 in your link to the DIY post in this forum above for a picture.

I've seen various styles, I couldn't tell you which type is on what engine.
Your timing gear could have a cast-in key instead of separate key.

 
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The Flex pipe might be messed up.

 
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Hi Jason16.
turns out that the inside of the crank wheel was chewed up and worn. So when i re attached it it wasn't centred. So that was the noise. I replaced the crank wheel with a new one and it appears to be a lot better. Going to do a timing belt change and i can't find a manual for the Austrlian D16Y4 engine. I rang honda and they said it isn't printed anymore.