hoader

I had to change a ball joint on a 98 Honda Civic LX and ruined the brake hose in the process. I have replaced the hose going to right front caliper and filled the master cylinder with fluid. I busied myself with other things while leaving the bleeders open until fluid started coming out. My friend showed up later and we bleed the front brakes via pumping. The pedal still goes to the floor. Neither the front or rear brakes work till maybe the 8th pump and the car pulls to the right. It is a bit nerve-racking taking that much time to slow the vehicle.
Next try was with another fresh quart of brake fluid and I caught the old fluid using a vinyl tube and the old bottle. We pumped and bleed the brakes. I used an old pressure paint cup to hold the brake fluid and made a plate to fasten to the master cylinder for a home made power bleeder. I was sure I got all the air out of the system but no change in the pedal. The feel was like the fluid was being forced somewhere but I saw no leaks.
Master cylinder? I went to a junk yard and of the 6 matches, there was one in the car intact. Good solid pedal so I swapped out the master cylinder and hooked up the brake lines before the reservoir emptied. The pedal still went to the floor. I tried bleeding the system again with the pressure bleeder at a low pressure (5 psi) mainly to keep the MC full. The original MC seemed to work pushing the piston by hand. We tried pumping with the bleeders open and closed while the bleeders were connected to the tubing. I also put teflon tape on the bleeder threads so air would not be pumped back into the system. I have done many systems before and it is pushing out a reasonable amount of fluid.
It behaves the same way whether the engine is running or not. With the engine off and pumping the brakes, I can hear a whoching noise from the anti lock gizmo. I am stumped and out of ideas. What can I try next?
hoader

ezone

Sounds like you let the master cylinder run empty and now there's air trapped somewhere in the system.

hoader

Ezone,
I have tried to bleed the brakes. My previous post tells how I tried to bleed the system. If air is causing this problem, how do I remove that air? Please read the previous posts and suggest a method I haven't tried yet.

Also, could the anti lock gizmo be leaking fluids between the split systems?
hoader

ezone

Well if it takes 8 pumps before you feel anything, there must be a lot of air trapped somewhere.

If it pulls right when you finally get some brake action, then RF (and LR) are probably getting pressure before the other 2. (dual-diagonal split system IIRC) But 8 pumps is a ridiculous amount. Do not drive it until you figure this out.

Whoosh noise in ABS is probably fluid moving as air pushes it back into the master cylinder. That might indicate air is trapped further out than the ABS, meaning it's probably toward the wheel(s).

I have been called into situations where the master was allowed to drain empty, and no amount of normal manual bleeding would purge the air out..... I opened one bleeder and covered it with my finger while someone else just pumped the pedal until fluid started moving. Repeated for each wheel.




There's gotta be something you're missing......
Do you have the calipers on the wrong sides? The bleeders MUST be at the top.

hoader

Ezone,
I am so embarrassed. I checked and the calipers were on the wrong side. I would not have ever noticed if you had not posted that warning. The car is back in action. Thank you for your expert help.
hoader

ezone

YW. Glad you got it figured out.
You wouldn't believe how common that error is....even among people that SHOULD know better. (No, it wasn't me. LOL)