jason1987

Hey all,

I have a 2013 Honda Civic EX 1.8L and have purchased an expensive audio system. Since I have purchased it, I have been having many electrical issues such as dimming lights, speakers cutting out, low battery warnings, etc.. I already bought a higher output battery (deep cycle) and have been looking for a high output alternator. Highest that I have found that says that its compatible with my car is a 95amp alternator. I have also upgraded the big 3(ground wires), gotten a capacitor, and put a 225amp fuse on the cable running from the battery to the amplifier. These have helped a little bit. My stock alternator only pushes out 70amps so its pretty weak. So far from my research, a couple different people had told me that in 2012, Honda changed how the cars digital interface systems works with the alternator. Other people said that Honda changed the software that handles the regulation of the alternator. They said that since this component has changed, that is why I am having trouble finding a high output alternator for my car because none of the custom alternator shops have made an alternator compatible with this new component. To me, a digital interface system just means a digital screen but I am guessing what they had meant is the software/hardware that regulates the alternator is what had been changed which is what some other people have said. I have brought this up to many many shops and online stores and have posted this on several forums and can not find a resolution. Does anyone know anything about this "change" or any work arounds that I could implement to upgrade my stock alternator? Thank you for reading this.

06 EX Mild Mods

Determine what wiring your current alternator has, wire length, connector type, number of wires, etc. Then look closely at how it mounts up to the bracket or block to see what sort of restrictions you have for finding a custom replacement which will likely be bigger. Maybe off of a Honda SUV or Pickup. Why do you need the big amp increase, heavy duty stereo system? If so check the forum sections on audio as someone has likely already done this for that purpose.

ezone

Whut?


Does anyone show a listing for Civic 06-11 w/1.8L engine alternator?

jason1987

I have ordered 0 gauge wiring to upgrade the big 3 so I am hoping that this helps. I am planning on putting a ground from alt to chassis and see if this helps any. I am not very experienced with car mechanics so I can't tell if another alt will with based on how its mounted to the block. Also, this does not mean that if the digital interface upgrade is true then another alt would even be compatible.

jason1987

so are you saying that the change to the alternator or whatever by honda doesn't matter? that I can just get a different alternator and put it in (if it fits) and it will work the same?

Reverb2005

Look, an alternator is not so complicated, it is essentially an on-the-fly power supply.

Your engine converts chemical energy (fuel) to mechanical energy (rotation, torque), then your alternator turns that rotational energy to electrical energy, that's it. The alternator output voltage is SET inside the alternator via a voltage regulator (~14.6 VDC).

That being said, the alternators on the newer Civics are actually ECU controlled, so output is controlled by the computer unfortunately. In order to ever change this you would need to re-flash the ECU with different parameters and comes with its own list of issues.

I'm not too sure how the above is possible as there must be a circuit inside the alternator that limits power output. I've never seen any newer Civic alternators so I really can't say for sure about this. As the alternator spins, power should be "allowed" to leave as the voltage regular keeps the voltage constant. There must be some sort of back and forth talk between the alternator and the ECU for the alternator to be limited. You may have to do some real digging to figure this one out. Or talk to an electrical engineer.

There are other ways to fix these issues though, the best seems like to install a large capacitor in the same vicinity as the amp. Large being about 1 Farad. The capacitor acts sort of like a battery and temporarily stores the power until it is needed and only while it is being powered.

As for putting a grounding wire from the alternator to the chassis, the bolt that holds the alternator down already does this, it most likely will not help your issue, but it won't hurt either. Test the resistance between your alternator housing and the chassis.... about 0 omhs?... already grounded, as it should be!

jason1987

Hey,
thank you for your reply. After I upgraded my grounds and upgraded my fuse, my current is almost 2 volts higher (according to my voltage meter on the capacitor). but the issue isn't my volts, its the amperes output of the alternator. The alternator isn't producing enough amps to recharge the battery quick enough. In other words, I am discharging the battery faster than the alternator is charging it. If I remember correctly, I have read several forums/articles stating that the newer honda civic ECU does throttle the alternator. I forget exactly the parameters but I think that I read that the ECU only lets the alternator charge the battery if you are either going faster than 35mph or if the battery is close to being fully discharged. I read quite a bit about this and saw that Honda did this to extend the life on the alternator. When reading about changing the ECU software to allow it to charge the battery consistently, many issues were discussed that would be caused by doing this. I can't remember any of them except that the life of the alternator would shortened and I would void my warranty. These are both obvious. I can't remember the other impactful issues that would be caused by changing the ECU to allow consistent charging


Also, lately I have been getting notifications stating that the voltage is low on my battery. I have a meter that sends a notification to my phone. This only happens on cold nights which I think I should expect, right?


I already have a capacitor and I think it is 2 farads, but I don't really remember.

When I upgraded and added all the 0 gauge grounds, it did significantly help the power issue. But the issue is still there. My lights, audio, etc just doesn't dim/lower AS much as it did. I added 3 more grounds. Alt to chassis, alt to frame, and battery to chassis (or frame, I forget) but this did help a lot. I also upgraded my fuse from 100amp to a 225amp fuse

jason1987

bump

ezone

What temperature are ya talking, and what is the voltage?
Does a DVOM measuring voltage at the battery posts agree with whatever voltage warning you are receiving?

Temperature can greatly affect battery performance, but that shouldn't come into play until it's well below freezing

If you have stuff in the car that's on all the time monitoring voltage and sending messages to your phone, just how much juice is that stuff drawing all the time from the battery? If the engine isn't running, I would want every last thing to be OFF so it can't drain the battery. At all.


----

If you're looking for a larger alternator...
First I don't know for sure that any other will bolt directly onto the R engine mounts........but aside from that, you would need one that uses Hondas single wire LIN communication network instead of the older 4 wire plug alternator

An alternator from a 2013 or newer Accord V6, 2016 or newer Pilot or 2018 Odyssey just might be relatively close in bolt patterns and those use Hondas LIN single wire system.
Got a rebuilder in your area?

jason1987

Thank you for replying. I haven't measured the voltage on the battery. The alerts don't actually tell me what the voltage is. The alerts only tell me that the car has low voltage. So far, I haven't had any issues with starting the car, though. So I believe this to be okay. I just turned the alerts off so I don't get so many.

The low voltage sensor ties into the Viper alarm system that I have. I have Viper Smart Start. I believe the sensors are the only devices pulling power while the car it off. The Viper sensors and remote start need to be on for my phone to be able to communicate with the vehicle. I believe it takes about a week for the car to sit before I need a jump. This has only happened once or twice since I rarely go without driving for that long.

I will look into getting one of those vehicle's alternators. Just to be clear, swapping for one of those alternators won't cause any computer compatibility issues?

I am not sure, as of right now, if there are any rebuilders in my area. I live in a fairly large city so I am sure there are. I will just need to find them.

ezone

I'd bet those units are drawing more than you think..... Normal "key off" draw with a completely stock car like yours is typically in the neighborhood of 20-25 milliamps after all the control units go to 'sleep' mode, but I've seen those aftermarket add-ons cause upwards of 200 mA draw or more, which may drain a good battery in a week or two, or a marginal or partially charged battery could be drained to the point it can't start the engine pretty darn quick.

The car battery is not designed to be drained of power (discharged)....It's designed to deliver a large amount of amps for a short time (to operate the starter that takes 100-150 amps), then be slowly recharged by the alternator as you drive the car around.

Every time the battery is discharged it can significantly shorten the lifespan of the battery. A battery that is left sitting in a discharged state can be ruined, and a weak or dead battery can freeze solid in the cold and be ruined.

Even a brand new battery can be ruined this way.

I assume the LIN type units would all be compatible BUT I can't really declare that with certainty, and this swaparoo is not something I would ever try for myself.

The LIN network is a single wire communication network that connects the alternator, PCM, and current sensor attached to the negative battery cable together (I described the most common part of the layout, but some vehicles may have more components tied into the network). This takes the place of the older ELD type charging system.

Kinda wondering if they can check out what parts would be common amongst the various alternators Honda uses,
maybe they all use the same voltage regulator with the single wire network ---so that would answer one of your questions,
and maybe they can either custom build a high output unit in your original shell
or maybe they can tell you what other higher output models might have the same bolt patterns as yours