teezyyoxo

hey all, thanks for your help thus far.

i have another quick (lol) question.

TPMS light is out in my "new" civic (the 08 coupe). honda dealership (not where i got the car from, but where i regularly take my accord for service) saw that the passenger rear sensor is dead, and quoted $215 for a replacement. a local tire shop can do an install for $20. my service advisor at honda also mentioned that the tire pressures were fine, too.

the issue is finding the proper sensor... research, and the representative at the shop advised me to find one that does not require programming, but simply requires a "relearn" so the system knows its there and blah blah.

i've found the Dorman 974063 for ~$28 on RockAuto that i could get. then there are "Honda" ones that appear to be TRW (which, allegedly, is the actual OEM) for about $15 but I'm not sure they're legitimate.

what are your thoughts? any of y'all have experience with the Dorman sensor?

really wishing i had something to do this all myself, lol.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

It may require HDS, and another Honda item to link to system from what I've seen.

I would stick with OEM part.

teezyyoxo

Word. I contacted Dorman Technical Support and they mentioned that HDS and TPMS sensor initializer tool AKS0620006...... I'd imagine that this tire shop at least has HDS. Is that TPMS initialized tool standard?

Only thing about the Honda sensor is I don't know if it's actually a Honda sensor lol

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

If part is in Honda packaging & part # it will be OEM.

It is around $40 msrp.

Initializer "Available through the Honda Tool & Equipment Program" (likely only dealers shop)

ezone

Didn't you ask the tire shop about replacements and programming?

Any local tire shop should be able to replace AND PROGRAM sensors for the majority of cars. Maybe not all cars, but most. Maybe not all shops doing tire work, but most. Many regular shops can have the equipment as well, and should have it if they do tire related work at all.

They can obtain replacement sensors for you as well, I'm sure they do this on a regular basis.






I work for a Honda dealership.
Our shop has equipment to program a majority of TPMS sensors for a majority of cars on the road, none of which we sell. We get the (non-Honda) TPMS sensors from local parts stores, we let them look up the sensors too.




You can get one of these for like $1-$3, then you can check tire pressures the old reliable way

teezyyoxo

I was looking on eBay. It just looks like a used sensor that's branded as Honda/TPW.

I asked if I purchased a sensor myself would they be able to install it or would I have to buy it through them in order to have it installed, and that's how I got my answer. Then I was learned that there's so much more to TPMS than I thought, which brought me here, and I'm stuck deciding whether or not I should get the Dorman or source out a Honda part, even thohgh pretty much the same suite of tools are required. The Dorman sensor says it only needs to be "relearned" and not programmed as it doesn't come "blank", and idk about the Honda/TPW sensor at all. It's the TPMS light that's irking my last nerve.... it's on in my Accord too

ezone

It's TRW, not TPW.

A crash course
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_TPMS


Honda uses maybe 3 or 4 different types of sensors that are not interchangeable. They might all operate at 315 or 433 MHz, but they are still not interchangeable.
Each of those may have different stems attached for use in different wheels.

The individual tire pressure sensors all must have a unique electronic ID number, each of which is registered in the TPMS control unit (the learning process) so the unit looks only for signals and info transmitted from those specific sensors. (This prevents your car from reading the sensors on a car next to yours.)

The ID --> control unit registration process on most Hondas is done electronically with a tool that communicates with the TPMS control unit and one that activates each sensor so it will transmit on demand.

Most, not all. Honda uses a different method on a select few other models, but not Civic.

Other vehicle manufacturers may have other ways of 'writing' a unique ID into their control units as well.

=====================

Aftermarket sensors......once they pick out which sensor flavor to sell you, there's the business of dealing with the unique ID.

They have "blank" sensors which must have a unique ID written into them (also called 'cloneable' sensors).
This means you must have the unique ID obtained from the old/bad/broken sensor that's being replaced (can also be done if you have the list of currently registered sensor IDs that are already registered in the control unit), so the new sensor can have the same ID as the bad one 'written' into it before installation.

Advantage here is since the new sensor will use the same ID as the old, the registration process doesn't have to be done with the cars TPMS control unit.
(this is IDEAL for people who want multiple sets of wheels and tires for the same car, i.e. winter/summer)

Disadvantage is special equipment needed to 'write' the ID into the new sensor, and equipment needed to 'read' the old sensor ID if you don't have the sensor removed from the wheel (can also be done if you have the list of currently registered sensor IDs that are already registered in the control unit), or if you have it out of the wheel that it's still got an ID written on the sensor body that hasn't been damaged and illegible .


If you get a regular aftermarket sensor that has an ID already written into it, it's just a matter of installing it and having the equipment to make the control unit learn the new sensor (register it's unique ID in the control unit).






Next important question.....what equipment does your installer have?
Can they program a standard new sensor to the car?
Can they write an ID number into a blank sensor?
I'm sure they know what they have to work with, and what they use all the time.


FYI even though we have some tools to deal with TPMS for many different cars, our shop does not have the equipment to write IDs into a blank or cloneable sensor. One of our suppliers did at one time, I'm not sure if they do now.


Something else we (our shop) have noticed......sometimes aftermarket sensors just don't last, maybe because they skimp on the battery or something to cut corners and cut price.

teezyyoxo

Thanks for the clarification!

All of that I've gathered within the last week or so.
I found a chart and Honda TPMS (at least in the case of my civic) is at 315MHz. So I've also answered that question on my own, thankfully.

The only unanswered questions now are, like you mentioned, what equipment the shop has. I'll reach out to them again and see, so I can take the next step or see if they have sensors there that'd work with my car. Because what I don't want is to buy sensor xyz that's said to work out-the-box with my car and have the guy install it but the TPMS light still be on because the sensor wasn't activated/registered/programmed, just installed. That'd be annoying lol

teezyyoxo

Alright sooo I stopped by the Discount Tire nearest me after work today and got my wheels and whatnot balanced. I asked about the TPMS thong, guy told me they don't do programming whatsoever but they can definitely install it. Hmm... now the search begins for a tire shop that can do it right without breaking the bank lol

Also apparently the rear tires are 3 years older (2012) than the fronts (2015). I had no idea. They're crap though, cracking and whatnot. So, I'll be getting all new tires soon.

ezone

Keep looking.

Buy the definitely correct sensors from a dealer (online if necessary at a discount), install them when the new tires go on, then have someone program them?

You could research ATEQ TPMS tools, see if they sell anything that supports programming sensors on Hondas

teezyyoxo

Definitely will keep looking.

ATEQ has a few universal programming tools that'd do the trick, but theyre $150-$200+. And apparently HDS is required too.
That, plus the cost of a sensor comes out to what Honda quoted me to begin with lol

teezyyoxo

Alright, mates, I've devised a plan.
I purchased an ITM -08001 SensorAid for $99 on fleabay, and plan on purchasing a blank/universal TPMS sensor, and attempt to clone/duplicate the dead sensor (if that makes sense and is even possible) to the new one and call it a day... otherwise, the way I understand it, if I have to give the new sensor a new ID, I'd need the OBD part of the SensorAid to tell the TPMS that there's a new ID being used... right? That's what I want to avoid because I can't find the proper OBD tool for SensorAid that isn't in a package with the SensorAid itself. I'm hoping that I can duplicate the dead one... or wait. Can't I just take the sensor ID from the back side of the sensor? And "manually" duplicate it? *pretentious excitement*

Also, it looks like the majority of TPMS sensors come with service kits (particularly the Honda/TRW ones)... the Discount Tire nearby, I'd imagine, is pretty talented, so I should be able to bring the new sensor with the service kit and they'll know what to do right? Or should I look for a "clamp-in" sensor?

ezone

Cloning (duplicating) the original sounds best for you, after that is done it just needs installed on the wheel and a tire put on and it should then work.

The sensor ID is usually on the housing of the original unit, probably 8 characters

teezyyoxo

Perfect. I was thinking that while my new tires are being put on i can take the old sensor, program the new one, and give the new one to the technician. Or, by some chance, get the code from the sensor while it's on the car (hopefully it's not "that dead") and program the new sensor once I get it and just have it ready when I get the new tires too.

ezone

You better be able to do this in 5 minutes or less or have it done and ready to install before the other 3 tires are finished, you don't want to interrupt the shop work flow at a labor/stall rate of more than $2/minute.




If you have the correct tool to do so, it can be read electronically IF the sensor is not completely inoperative. The unit we use in our shop will display the ID along with other sensor data.

teezyyoxo

Yeah I know, I've got it all planned out lol, especially if I can read the dead sensor while it's on the car, before I even get the new tires. This way, I'm a step ahead.

ezone

Install spare tire, knife a hole in the sidewall of the old tire with bad sensor, remove sensor and program new, then go to tire shop?

LOL

teezyyoxo

Lmao! I wasn't even thinking of that! Great idea!

I was thinking of positioning everything the moment I get to the tire shop. Like... "Listen... there's a dead TPMS sensor in the LR tire. I have a new one and can program it myself, is it OK if I have the old sensor once you guys get it off the tire?" and go from there.

teezyyoxo

Alright, I figure I should share an update on the situation (shrug)

Got new tires installed either last month or late August at Firestone... then I had an Autel MX TPMS sensor installed in my RR tire at a Discount Tire in town (for free, since because rapport.. as opposed to 20 bucks). Didn't realize that the $100 ITM TPMS tool only programs ITM sensors until way after, so I haven't had it programmed yet. TPMS light is still shining bright.
The ITM tool doesn't detect the sensor ID at all, I guess it has to be initialized with a magnet? It's been a while... the front two TPMS sensors are ok. RL was fine last time I checked too, but I distinctly remember getting a "duplicate sensor ID" message on the ITM tool for RL > RR before I had the Autel one installed.

I'm gonna head to Firestone one day I have off next week (9 day stretches are no fun) and see if they can take care of that, seeing that I just had some work done by them.
I went by there the other day on my way to work and the guy just balanced the tires lmao