shaunanb

My 2007 Hond Civic (190k miles) stopped working last month. (Specifically, acceleration began losing its power, and on the way up a hill, the brakes and steering locked up, the lights flashed, and the car wouldn't move until we got it on level ground.)

A mechanic (who is a friend of a friend) said he could do it for $1,000 tops. He called me the day I was expecting it to be ready and informed me that it wasn't just the head gasket -- the whole engine needed to be fixed. (He was breaking up and I was emotional over the news, but I think he said the block was cracked.)

I'm a graduate student. I don't really have the $2,200 (total cost) he's saying it will cost, and I don't know that I would have agreed to the job had I known what it was going into it -- replacing an engine on a car with 190k miles!! -- which I feel like I should have known.

Can someone please shoot me straight about what a mechanic's obligations are to their customer? Is a major misdiagnosis reasonable under certain circumstances? Or is it reasonable for me to expect him to let me off the hook for the work already done? Or is the car worth fixing if only to sell?!

THANK YOU.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I mean, anyone could've made the same prognosis but wouldn't have known for sure until they got down and dirty. Ive done that many times on my own car. And, to be fair, there was a tech service bulletin (TSB 10-048) addressing engine block cracks for 06-08 civics and some early production 09's, and Honda extended the warranty for engines out to 8 years from purchase date. That said, the R18 engine found in the affected years (and affected VINs) had a predisposition to engine block cracking (see this PDF of TSB 10-048 for more information)

As far as mechanic's obligations, I'm not sure. In a professional shop situation, there may be something in the shop's policies that addresses that.

I'm not a pro, but if I told a friend that [x] was the problem, but after working on it, the problem ended up being [y], as far as I'm concerned, my friend would only be out the cost of parts. Then again, I only really work on cars for good friends, and I'm too fking nice of a person. If I work on a friend's car, I tell them where to buy parts, then I do the work after they get everything.

ezone

Though I expect your mechanic probably isn't intimately familiar with the particular quirks and issues of the car model, I don't see misdiagnosis.


You approved an initial quote which now at this point covers the engine teardown (disassembly) process, where the mechanic found a problem he hadn't expected to see.
(most likely cracked engine block and warped cylinder head)

When the mechanic found out what the problem is, he called you with an update on the situation and revised estimate.
(replace engine with a used unit)

You then have the opportunity to approve or decline further work....and if you stop the repairs now at this point I fully expect you still owe for the teardown labor fees at minimum. (discuss this rationally with your mechanic if you must, our time is worth money)

Proper process.
Done deal.

If you had questions or reservations, you should have those straightened out before making the decision to approve or decline further work.


BTW there's a chance it could have gone very differently if you had towed your car to your Honda dealer.

If the car doesn't run and drive, the car is just a big paperweight or yard ornament.

If you don't fix it, it's only worth about 10 cents per pound when someone drags it across the scales at the local scrap recycler.


If you drop some money into the car to fix it, how much money can you sell it for?

shaunanb

I did not agree to make the rest of the repairs. He is waiting for my decision.
The car is 11 years old with 190k miles -- a Honda dealer probably would have found $5,000 in recommended maintenance/repairs as opposed to $2,200.
I could probably get $3,000 for it. So if I make the investment to fix it and go through the hassle of selling it, I could walk away with a lucrative $500 more than the $300 offered to me by a salvage yard. (Sorry for the sarcasm... it's a coping mechanism. $2,200 is literally what I have to my name right now!)

ezone

I've done similar major work on cars with more miles than yours.


Although the car probably does need more work than JUST an engine, that wasn't the point of my statement.


And what sort of car do you think you can actually buy for $1200 tomorrow?

I know you said 2200, but I figure 1000 might have to go toward the outstanding bill at the shop.

shaunanb

I have a preauthorized auto loan from my bank, and have seen multiple cars of similar age I would enjoy driving for $5,000 with 85k miles. So I think it's reasonable to say that $2,300 (most recent estimate) is a lot to put into a car with 190k miles that I would prefer to be done with. If I would hate to part with it, it might be a different story!
That being said, you're right. Unless it's running, it's a paperweight.

ezone

What does your mechanic want/need from the car at this point?

Does he want the repair bill paid and you have the car towed ($$$) off his property?
Sign over the title to the shop? (so he can install an engine and sell the car)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

honest opinion?

I am afraid to say the mechanic cannot be hold accountable... he did right

Wankenstein

Please clarify: Did he install a new head gasket and then find a block crack or did he find the crack before the head gasket installation while the cylinder head was off?

If it's the latter and he quoted you a $1000 price to do a head gasket repair then his labor price for breakdown to that point should be around $250-$350. He would have to know that within his initial quote there's a high probability that the cylinder head would need to be milled flat at a machine prior to installation. Did he tell you about the possibility of the need for machine shop and that it may add to the price?

Also within his quote it should contain the price of parts: head gasket, intake gasket, coolant, valve cover seal and maybe more. So, if he just did a tear down and stopped when the head was off the engine you could argue you that you are only liable for no more than 1/3 of his initial quoted price:
1) Teardown
2) Parts (possibly including machine shop)
3) Assembly

Did you ever ask him his hourly price? How long did it take him to get to point where he stopped?
As, Ezone and Riceboy said there's no way for him to know about a block crack without tear-down..so, you definitely owe the mechanic for his labor to the point of stoppage.