cricketfoot

I've got a 2006 Hybrid with I think 140k+ miles on it. It's a commuter, about 70 miles a day.

A little less than a year ago the car was having a very intermittent, very light sort of sputtering. No CEL. Still intermittent, the problem continued but the sputtering at times was more severe. I noticed it more on acceleration at slow speeds. Still no CEL. The problem seemed worse in Oregon on the hills, if that matters.

At some point in time (it's maybe been two or three months) I replaced the spark plugs. I just replaced the 4 easy to replace plugs. There are also 4 more on the hybrid that I think does something with the exhaust recycling (hopefully that makes sense) which I did not replace because they are a pain to access.

The new plugs (they are the E3 plugs with the different tip) seemed to fix the problem, but for about the last month it started to happen again, so the new plugs only lasted a few months before the problem happened again.

After getting my oil changed at Goodyear they said it needed an induction/fuel cleaning. I'm not fond of having those places service my car because I always feel like I'm getting ripped off. Anyway, I did add fuel cleaner to the gas tank. No help. Should I do more to clean it? I have Seafoam, but a bunch of forums said don't do Seafoam for newer cars.

Finally the CEL flashed towards the end of my drive. It flashed 25 times if that matters.

Hopefully the sputtering is on okay description. I guess maybe it feels like a cylinder isn't firing? I'm THE WORST at describing or diagnosing problems.

Any ideas of what it could be or how to diagnose it? Any thoughts on what it might be?

Thanks for the help!

ezone

Use the correct DENSO or NGK plugs, not cheap gimmicks.

Flashing CEL = misfire
Read codes, figure out which cylinder the misfire was on
pull BOTH coils and plugs for that cylinder (and keep them in order)

Inspect for carbon tracking on the porcelain of the plugs




If you find this, replace the plug AND ITS COIL at the same time. Don't change one item at a time, because one track mark will cause a burn in the other no matter how new it is.

If you don't find this, then you may just have a bad coil. I mught swap the suspect coil to another cylinder and see if the misfire code moves to another cylinder....but on an 8 plug engine it's trickier. Move front coil to another cylinder, and move rear coil to yet another different cylinder. (make notes, keep track of all this as you go!!) Then see what misfire code comes up next.



That's not what the extra set is for LOL.

cricketfoot

Enlighten me. I thought the back 4 plugs did something like reburn the exhaust gasses for cleaner emissions...or something like that. I'm mostly bad at understanding cars.

And when I do replace the spark plugs, do I need to replace all 8 of them? That just seems like a lot of spark plugs for such a tiny motor.

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Could the fuel filter play any part in this? That was mentioned to me as a possible culprit.

I'll have to look at the car tomorrow. Thanks for the info!

ezone

Emissions yes, but they are supposed to help ensure the majority of the fuel energy is used in the cylinder, reducing the amount of unburned fuel going to the catalytic converter. Maximizing efficiency.
Second reason (IMO) is this is not a 16 valve engine, there are only 8 valves (2 per cylinder), so there is room for the extra spark plug in the combustion chamber. There isn't any room for an extra plug when there are 4 valves per cylinder.

I'd figure out the problem first, then worry about the rest of the plugs.

But yes, we replace the complete set of plugs during a tune up.
You just did what some of us call a "sunny side tune up".

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IMO you did not describe anything that makes me think of a fuel filter problem.

cricketfoot

It's cold and rainy so I didn't check any of the plugs or coils yet.

But I did pull the code - P2413 which says it's related to the EGR system (performance problem).

Suggestions for diagnosing this issue?

ezone

No misfire code found? Strange. That's supposed to be the only type of code that can cause a flashing check engine light. You must have driven it around since it happened and it did not misfire at all during the drive?


P2413 deals with the EGR valve, as in it was read as closed when the PCM commanded it to be open. Unable to open for some reason.

cricketfoot

Quick update - I finally got a few codes to register.

Now I have P2413 (which is what I had initially), P0303, P0304, and P0300.

It runs so-so for most of the time (an occasional hiccup), and every once in a while it will stutter more frequently and more severe.

I've noticed the more severe stuttering tends to happen towards the end of a long drive (~45 minutes) when I get to a stretch that has several stop signs. It's when going from a stop at these stops signs that it tends to happen. This is not an everyday thing. This is the first time the CEL flashed since initially posting this.

I did clean my EGR about a week ago and that didn't seem to do much.

If it matters, my car has I think a little over 175,000 miles.

cricketfoot

Is there an easy way to check if the EGR is stuck closed?

ezone

"Easy" to me would mean using a scanner to see if I can make the computer command the valve open, and I can watch live operating data as I run the engine or drive the car to see if the valve is opening (position sensor voltage).
IDK if you have anything available to you that can do the same, like a scangauge or code scanner.



If you mean physically stuck you could pull the valve off and see if you can pull the pintle open by hand, (and backprobe the signal return circuit from the EGR valve position sensor and see if the voltage reading changes as you move the valve open and closed)

you could apply power and ground to the control portion of the terminals to cause the valve to open electrically,
You could backprobe the same terminals and connect voltmeter to see if the computer is able to complete that circuit while driving

and/or if you do not have any way to read live data on a scanner you could do it the manual way, backprobe the signal return circuit from the EGR valve position sensor and see if the voltage reading says it does in fact open while driving.



Also, what did you clean in the egr system? Did you clean out the passages?
Not sure what to think about this one yet.
Have you checked into moving the plugs and coils around as mentioned earlier?
Got correct plugs yet?

sonofray

Was this ever solved? I have the IDENTICAL situation with a 2007 hybrid. Dealership even looked completely through it and blamed EGR valve. I replaced it (aftermarket - I'm not paying the crazy pries for Honda - and it's run for multiple years on another aftermarket EGR).

After replacement, same behavior. The only other thing the dealership also said was "may need catalyst also" which I don't know what that is. Had P0171 and P0420 which have since gone away.

Not sure if they checked the spark plugs

Colin42

Changed the CVT fluid yet?