Wankenstein

2004 Civic VP, A/T, 85k original miles, tires purchased late 2017 and have less than 8k miles on them.

Took my mom's car to Firestone two days ago to have the tires balanced. She has lifetime balancing on the tires and lifetime (of car) alignment through Bridgestone (Firestone & Tires Plus). The alignment was fine when I brought it in but the service manager said since the tires balancing is being done then might as well do an alignment check. I agreed but I told him alignment seems fine.

After a balancing and alignment: the balancing is much better but they adjusted the alignment and it's pulling pretty hard to the left. So, now two days later I bring it back ( time out of my day) and the service dick is telling me, without putting it back on the alignment rack, that it has to be the tires that are bad and causing it to pull left. I told him (in front of customers) that is absolute bullshit as the alignment was fine two days prior before their alignment job
I'm sitting in their waiting room stewing and writing this rant. I also informed him that there's been a few times in the past after buying new tires from then that I would have to bring the car back soon afterwards to get the tires balanced at least once but usually twice to get the correct balancing.

Needless to say I stopped buying tires from them and I told the manager that as well. Not all my experiences with them have been bad and it seems like it depends on the service manager that day. I also notice they will demote the good service managers back to tech work... probably because they didn't **** people and try to push unneeded tires and repairs on customers.

ezone

All they can adjust is toe. Camber/caster cause pulling and I'm reasonably sure nobody made the effort to change those.

Swap the 2 front tires side to side and see if the pull changes.

Wankenstein

Well, they magically corrected the alignment using the current tires. The manager (whom I've had mostly good experiences with) mentioned they did an adjustment to the driver side upper control arm today to get it right. Are the 7th gens UCA's even adjustable? I know the stock 5th and 6th gens aren't unless an aftermarket adjustable one is installed.

The tech who did the work and took it for a short test drive afterwards said he did a bounce test for the rear shocks and said he thinks either one shock is stuck in place or one shock is working properly and the other is not. He said it feels stiff over small bumps but it passed the bounce test. I did a bounce test on it when I got home and seems good but even before he mentioned about feeling stiff on small bumps I've noticed that as well prior. It does have 85k miles and wouldn't be "shocking" if they needed replacement. If needed I will do replacement work myself.

During my little outburst with the first sales/service guy I said I would appreciate a free oil change coupon for the many times (past balancings included) I had to bring cars back. The manager gave me the coupon when I checked out. Maybe it's quota time and they need to pimp as many tires as possible or that sales/service guy just takes everyone for a sucker. I quit buying tires from them a year ago..now I just buy them online and have a used tire shop mount and balance them for less cost, they do road-forced balances only and so far no need to return for a re-balance.

ezone

7th gen has MacPherson struts. No upper arms.
Are yours adjustable?

Wankenstein

On my 5th gen the previous owner installed adjustable aftermarket UCA's.
Not sure if you recall when I removed and modified the steering rack but, I also have lifetime alignment on my car and I had to bring it back to Firestone three times (after I corrected the steering wheel/rack centering) to get it aligned properly. On the third time I was fortunate there was a tech on that had been there a few years and he got the alignment right.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Getting a good tech seems to be half the battle. I drive about an hour to an NTB that I have always had good luck with. Before finding them I went around to a few shops and no one seemed to ever get it right.

Not sure how they adjusted the upper control arm since there are none in the front?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

yeah.... I myself had luck on one shop, but the others I did not... Chain shops are hard... Finding a shop with a good tech even harder... sadly the shop i used to go to, they changed the tech, so can't trust that anymore... It was close to home too.
pay is not good, part of the problem, sadly

Wankenstein

Just like: "A car can only pull left if the tires are bad, as nothing else can cause it" Apparently, they are trained to lie. For them lying to customers most likely becomes easier the more often they get away with it.

I drove to a store last night and now it seems to be pulling (not slowly drifting) some to the right. I'm going to give it a couple days just to be sure and if it does need to be aligned again 'I'm going to bring it to Tires Plus and hope that they can get it right.

ezone

Technically......A lie is only a lie when the truth is already known by the person telling the lie.
If they don't know what the truth is, the mis-statement is not a lie.

Wankenstein

I'm pretty sure they are truthfully lying.

On crowned roads the right pull (not drifts) is noticeable but on flat roads it's not as evident.

ezone

Did you do this:
This is the absolute quickest way to prove or disprove a tire induced pull. (make sure all pressures are correct first)

Did they provide a before and after printout of the alignment, so you (and the rest of us) can see what exactly was done?

The answer to the deleted question is "are you f'n nuts?" LOL

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Lmao, you would be great at that...you love customers lol

ezone

No way. I am NOT a people person in any way.

Wankenstein

I have not brought it back yet and it is definitely pulling to the right. Befor I had my little meltdown he did mention that swapping tires would be the best way to determine tire-pull. They didn't mention after the last alignment whether they swapped the front tires. All I know is there wasn't any pull and alignment seemed very good before they did the first alignment right after balancing the tires few days ago.

So, is it possible that if they rotated the rear left to the front after the balancing it could be defective and would not have been noticeable while it was on the rear?
They only provided a receipt and not an alignment printout. I will call them and ask if they rotated the tires before the first alignment.

I'm nucking futs

My guess, which could be way off the mark, is that they knowingly misalign front-ends so the tires will wear out faster, which could lead to more tire sales.

ezone

Didn't they rotate the tires at that time? Front to rear?


You've speculated for how many days now?
FYI I bet nobody there is gonna remember squat at this point.

Swap the 2 front tires yourself. Drive it. You'll have your answer.

Do you think they teach this in their Chain store 101 training?


Pic is unrelated:

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

I really would hope not...

Wankenstein

I didn't ask them to rotate, only balance. Did they take take it upon themselves to rotate? possibly. Did they tell me or give me a printout that they rotated? No, they did not

I could, or being that my mom only drives about 3k miles a year I could swap it to the rear and get another 4 years out of it. I'd rather call them and ask them what exactly they did, and if they did rotate them and indeed if it is due to tire pull I will apologize for my actions. Pondering during the 10 hour shift I worked on Monday and the 14 hour shift I worked on Tuesday, Plus being that it took them three tries on my own car (without any tire issues) I feel I have reason to believe they may have not have performed it correctly

Rule number 1 most likely..lol

ezone

If an idiot takes 4 tires off the car and goes to the tire balancer with all 4, how in the world is that same idiot going to put all 4 tires back on the car in the same places they came off?

If they did a road force balance, the machine may give tags for the set that tells and sorts which tires will cause the least pull so the mechanic can put those in the front

Whomever you talk to is almost never the individual that did any of the work, (and you're almost a week after the fact now, it's probably a lost cause). They won't know any more than whatever was written or typed on the work order.

Wankenstein

Well, as usual it turns out that I am the idiot because I didn't factor in rotation and honestly didn't know that tires can cause a pull until researching after your replies.

I just called the service manager and he said they did do a rotation from back to front initially and then side to side when I brought it back. He said the defective tire moved to the rear should alleviate the issue and offered to do that if I bring it back. I told him I will most likely do it myself today. I apologized to him and asked him to pass along my apology to the other service person I had my flair up with. Working on cars seems to always keep me in-check..just when I think I know a bit about it, it turns out I don't know enough (and/or forgot what I previously learned). Thanks for the replies.

Maybe I should change the title of my posting to F Me ....lol.

ezone

Only until the next time the tires get rotated.

How you gonna know which one to swap?

Wankenstein

Hopefully, right front to right rear. Can mark affected tire with grease marker on inner sidewall. I realize it will effect rotation mileages so, maybe use for another year and then replace with an oinline tire purchase.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

let us know how it goes

Wankenstein

Yesterday, I only had time to rotate the right front to the right rear and it seems to be better. My mom said she couldn't feel anymore pulling but I feel that while not pulling it seems to be drifting to the right more than it normally would. I intend to rotate the left front to left rear today to see if that has any effect. Even though the tires are a year old there's around 90% tread so, though I no longer purchase tires from them (Firestone/Tires Plus), I will ask them for a break on pricing and see what they say. IMO as many tires/balancing/alignments as I've purchased through them for the past ten years they should replace the one defective tire free.