Hondaman4ever

I currently have an '03 LX (non-Vtec) but I just can't stop thinking about upgrading to an '04 or '05 (Si Candian/EX US) Vtec, and I mean buying a whole car, not swapping engines. I know it's still a SOHC engine with slightly more power and torque but I'm so intrigued by this Vtec thing.

Do you think it's worth the upgrade ?

Also, read somewhere that the suspension on the '04, or the '05 is different than in previous 7th gen models. Is it any better ?

Thanks.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Are you gonna mod at all? There are more power making mods available for the d17a2 than the -a1. Just to note, in 04, they changed the upstream o2 sensor from a narrow band to a wideband. Narrow band sensors cost about $100 or so to replace. Wideband sensors are closer to $300.

And the only suspension difference are the crash bolts on the struts. 01-03 uses 14mm bolts and 04-05 uses 16mm bolts

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

I think 03 + have slightly larger shock bodies on front too.

EX have shorter gearing, so higher RPM on hwy.

More interior stuff also, arm rest for example

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

It is a 12hp gain just going to the D17A2. How much does it cost to re title, taxes and register a vehicle in your state. Is it worth it for 12hp? That is a 10% gain!

Hondaman4ever

Thanks for the replies.

No. I'm not planning to do any modding to the engine. That's why I was thinking if I get a Vtec it would be an improvement (in power and torque) over the non-Vtec w/o having to do anything, although I realize it's not much of a gain.

Yeah I just read recently about the O2 sensor costing more on the Vtec models but I thought it was less than $300. Wow. I also read about the difference in gears and shifting. But my main question is about the engine (Vtec version). Is the small increase in HP and torque noticeable, even at least in higher RPM? Is the car (Si Sedan in Canada/ EX US) any more fun to drive than the '03 non-V ? Or is it going to be more in terms of maintenance cost with only a small gain in HP ?

I hope someone can answer this. I just can't make a final decision - keep my '03 or get an '04-'05 with the Vtec engine.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I have never driven a D17A2 but you could certainly test drive some and see for yourself if its noticable.

Do some suspension mods!! Then it will be lots more fun to drive. The first thing I did to my Fit was put summer tires from my Civic on it and it felt like a new car! Then I lowered it with coilovers. Again, big improvement and it still sucks on HP but its much more fun to drive lol

Summer tires - BfG Sport Comp TA tires
Lowering Springs or coilovers - I would go with coilovers personally after having both.

Hondaman4ever

Just saw your reply. I'm in Canada. Well, it is going to be about $400 in taxes and fees but it's a one-time thing. So...

I guess 10% more power isn't bad considering how weak the non-Vtec is, especially if Vtec engines still give the same MPG as non-V.

Hondaman4ever

Thanks for the reply.
Yes we were just talking about this (new tires, sus. mods) just last night, which I do intend to do but before I do that I have to decide if I'm going to keep my '03 or upgrade. I find the '04/'05 much more attractive, at least the deadlights and grille. And I think I could use all those extra HPs in the Vtec version.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Yes it is a better looking car for sure!! Thats another good point that I forgot about. Seems like for you it would be worth looking for an Ex. If you find an 05 it will be 2 years newer and possibly have lower mileage so thats a plus too! With the A2 head you can put a Cam in also to give some more umph!!

Hondaman4ever

Yes. The looks alone is worth it but again it's the A2 engine that I'm interested in and I think the power point is settled (12 more HPs isn't little), but now, is it a reliable engine ? At least is it similar to the A1 in that regard?

My '03 is low Ks at only 100,000 miles.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Same engine aside from head and higher compression.

The EX engine just needs the crower stage 1 camshaft to get at least 20 wheel hp, no tune needed, just bolt the cam to engine.
With intake, header and exhaust, people had dyno them at 35+ wheel HP above stock. No changes in ECU required.

Hondaman4ever

Oh wow ! Very cool. 20 more HP with what seems like very little work . Thanks for the info.

I'm sure the MPG drops though. Doesn't it ??

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

If you stomp on the gas more just because it have more power, yes, it will drop.

If you are smart enough to use the power, and uses the gas pedal less than before, you will get better mileage than before, fopr the camshaft increases torque all over the range, not only on higher RPM.

Mileage depends a lot on driving habits.

you will get to speed faster than before, if you don't want to use more gas, just lift earlier, when you get to desired speed.

Hondaman4ever

Thanks, sdaidoji.

Yeah it's the reason why I want the Vtec - economy for normal driving and extra power if you need it. .
So, would you say the Vtec engine gives the same MPG as a non-V IF it's not driven hard? Would that still be the case even with an installed crower cam ?

I looked at the crower website and I can't find the D17a2 cam. It says "there are no products matching this selection" !

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

http://www.dezod.com/crower/crower-i...i-2162626.aspx

Hondaman4ever

Thanks for the link, riceboy. So, that's the only cam that can be used ?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

no, that's the easiest (as long as you have the D17A2 engine - usually found in EX models - Si in Canada).

the others will require new retainers and you will need to change the ECU for a programmable one (Haven't checked lately, but used to be on the grand dollars

stage 1 is install and go have fun. (OK, it might take some time for the ECU to relearn)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

search around.

we did a write-up in this sticky thread.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...ge-1-cams.html

Hondaman4ever

OK. Thanks for the info and the link. I never actually knew about this. Never had the intention of doing any mods on the engine until I learned about this cam.