gnurmi

Hello all,
I've had my 2005 civic DX (all stock) for about 5 years and change, with 140k miles now. Over this time period I've spent an average of $2,000 per year in regular maintenance and repairs to keep it on the road, so around $10,000 over the course of a little over 5 years. I've only owned one other car prior to this one, and since it was totaled within just a few months, I don't really have a good reference point from which to judge reasonable maintenance and repair costs. I realize that some of the expensive stuff around 100k miles like the "timing belt package" was normal, and that visit alone ran at least $1,000 if I remember correctly. But other issues I've had like oil leaks, broken oxygen sensor, worn out or damaged engine mounts, failing gauge cluster, clogged A/C and a broken axel cost a small fortune to fix as well. I'm not really convinced these other issues are "normal," but what the hell do I know, lol. So my main question here is, is $2K per year a lot to be spending on this budget car? Seems to me I could be driving a (used) luxury car for this price tag lol. Btw in case it makes a difference, my vehicle might be worth around $2,000 in present condition because mechanically everything works (for now) but has a baseball sized dent on the door and other cosmetic issues (small scratches etc). Thanks for any input...

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

This is where DIYing a lot of stuff can really save you money. Yes I think 2000 a year is a lot to maintain a vehicle and it sounds like you have had more trouble then most people do. It is a 13 year old car though so stuff is going to break. Yes that 10k that you spent over the course of 5 years could have been spent on a Acura, Lexus, BMW but they need maintenance as well. Its a fact of life and part of owning a car. With those cars the parts are just more expensive.

2000 a year divided by 12 months = $166 a month. It would be difficult to find a new car for that price so you in the used car market again which is going to lead to higher costs to keep it running. Maybe you can lease depending on how much you drive a year? Sounds like the car is payed for which in my book is a great thing!

If you really love the car then maybe the cost is worth it to you. I do think you have had more trouble then most but some shops say you need things when you really don't.

Colin42

$2k a year in repair and maintenance is still cheaper than car payments.
All cars are going to have maintenance and repair costs associated with them.

Slumpertcivic

gnurmi

Thanks for your 2 cents!

ezone

It would be interesting to see the complete and itemized breakdown of these repairs and services you've spent your hard earned money on. From start to finish.
Also what kind of shop(s) were doing each of these services.

gnurmi

I'll check my files to see what I can come up with and get back to you guys on that one @ezone...

gnurmi

Hi @ezone, took me several hours to plow through my files, but here is what I came up with. Apologies for anything that is oddly worded, some of the documentation was not exactly clear, particularly from the Honda dealership...Surprise, surprise (eye roll). Reliving all the money I put into my car was not exactly a good time, but an educational experience for sure.

There's a ton of data here because it's 2013-Present, so I wrote a little summary of what I learned before pasting the entire itemized breakdown of service/repairs below:
Make/Model: Honda Civic DX 2005
Starting miles: 59,000
Year 2013 SUBTOTAL: $1,526.87 -- Year end milage: approx 74,000
Year 2014 SUBTOTAL: $4,089.32 -- Year end milage: approx 89,000
Year 2015 SUBTOTAL: $1,235.13 -- Year end milage: approx 104,000
Year 2016 SUBTOTAL: $1,001.24 -- Year end milage: approx 119,000
Year 2017 SUBTOTAL: $2,242.53 -- Year end milage: approx 134,000
Year 2018 SUBTOTAL: $658.83 -- Current milage: 137,000
GRAND TOTAL = $10,753.92 (This figure may be minus $207.36 due to lack of clarity in one of my Pep Boys receipts)
Cost to repair/maintain over approximately 61 months: = $176.29/month
Annual cost = $2,115.53/year

Where the $$$ went:
Pep Boys Pompano: $1,992.95 -- (7) Visits for an average of $284.71/per visit
Hendrick Honda Stealership: $5,119.13 -- (8) Visits for an average of $639.89/per visit
Boca's Best Auto Repair: $294.02 -- (1) Visit
DS Motors Pompano: $3,347.82 -- (13) Visits for an average of $257.52/per visit

The most expensive work over this period of time, by several hundred dollars, was done at the Hendrick Honda Stealership for $1,511.50 on 09/30/14
This job included work on the suspension, brake system, brake flush, steering, valve cover gasket, and replacement of 4 tires.
The cheapest work was done at Pep Boys for $19.44 on 06/14/14
It was a long time ago and I'm not 100% sure what it was, but I'm thinking I probably had a check engine light on or something,
and that was their fee to check it out (I realize something like that, assuming I'm correct, should be done for free).

OK, so below is the full, itemized list of maintenance and repairs in chronological order: **Florida sales tax = %6.00**

Year 2013:
04/26/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-remove rock stuck between rim and tire
-Wheel balance $10.49
-Tire install on alloy weel $10.00
taxes: $1.23
TOTAL: $21.72

05/29/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-adjust brakes $51.00
-Bosch 02 sensor $289.99
-Remove and replace 02 sensor $88.80
-brake inspection $14.99
-Shop fee $34.25
-Ext labor warranty $7.65
taxes: $29.21
TOTAL $515.89

06/27/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Conventional oil change $13.54
-QT 5W20 Shell conv ecobox $13.16
-Purolator oil filter $4.49
-1 step mileage improver package:
GUMOUT PRO 1step FSC $9.99
-Cabin air filter replacement:
-labor $15.00
-Purolator cabin air filter $17.99
taxes: $4.46
TOTAL: $78.63

10/16/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
This one is a little unclear
As it appears from the receipt that
I was refunded the money for work
done here. Unfortunately, its too far
back to find out for sure from my
online bank statements
-Bosch 02 sensor $92.38
-Remove and replace 02 sensor $88.80
-Shop fee $14.44
taxes $11.74
TOTAL: $207.36

10/29/13 – Hendrick Honda stealership
Engine-electrical:
-Check engine light on
and no cavity activity in primary
02 sensor, replaced 02 sensor $120.00
-sensor,A 36531 $263.81
-service charge $7.20
taxes: $23.47
TOTAL: $414.48

10/31/13 –Hendrick Honda stealership
-Remove/replace front engine mount $125.00
-stopper $80.44
-service charge $7.50
taxes: $12.78
TOTAL: $225.72

12/17/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Wheel alignment $79.99
taxes: $4.80
TOTAL: $84.79
Year 2013 SUBTOTAL: $1,526.87
___________________________
Year 2014:

01/30/14 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Oil and filter change w/ lube $10.00
-Oil change special $23.00
Discount: - $12.41
Taxes:$2.08
TOTAL: $20.59

Service recommended:
“Timing belt package w/ resealing
oil pump and pan” (quoted at $899.95)

03/14/14 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Engine-general
(Oil pump reseal and
oil pan) $375.00
-O-ring $2.69
-Oil seal $11.90
-gasket $49.52
-All civic t/belt $355.38
-belt, TI $43.12
-belt, CO $36.48
-belt, P $30.33
-Water pump $104.84
-Coolant $28.85
-Rubber $80.44
-Cover $29.46
Discount: -$57.44
TOTAL: $1,090.57

04/29/14 - Pep Boys Pompano
-2x Phillips bulbs
low beam head lights and install $51.98
-Pro start 24/72 month battery $110.99
-Florida lead acid battery fee $1.50
-Shop fee $4.14
taxes: $10.12
TOTAL: $178.73

06/14/14 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Prostart starting/charging
system evaluation $16.99
-Shop fee $1.35
taxes:$1.10
TOTAL:$19.44
08/13/14 – Bocas Best auto repair
-Starter assembly standard
Trans, 1.7L engine $178.27
-Remove and replace starter $99.00
-Shop supplies $5.00
taxes: $16.65
Discount: -$4.90
TOTAL: $294.02

09/30/14 - Hendrick Honda stealership
-Adjust rear brakes
cleaned and adjusted
rear brake shoes $40.00
-Valve cover gasket
replaced and cleaned due
to leaking oil $125.00
-gasket $63.00
-Service charge $30.00
-Tire tax $4.00
-Tire disposal fee $16.00
-front lower control arm
bushings split,
remove and replace $375.00
-front bushing $73.00
-Suspension,
ball joint boot
are broken,
replace front lower ball joint
boots $125.00
-boot $16.12
-Wheel Alignment $79.95
-Brake flush $88.00
-Brake fluid $12.00
-Replace 4 tires $80.00
-Dunlop tires $300.00
taxes:$84.42
TOTAL: $1,511.50

10/02/14 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Power steering package:
-Flush (labor) $36.99
-GU NK 12oz Honda fluid $4.99
-16oz/32oz steering flush $9.99
-Transmission fluid exchange
with filter change (labor) $96.12
-PB/Proline AT trans filter $28.49
-QT IMP MV Castrol $83.88
-Remove and replace
rear struts $216.30
-PB/Monroe OEM struts (2) $233.98
-Computerized wheel alignment $84.99
-PB/Monroe rear strut
mounting kit (2) $25.98
-shop fee $35.00
taxes:$51.40
TOTAL: $908.11

10/27/14 Hendrick Honda Stealership
-Cabin filter replacement $30.00
-Cabin filter $29.90
-service charge $2.70
taxes:$3.76
TOTAL: $66.36
Year 2014 SUBTOTAL: $4,089.32
___________________________
Year 2015:
03/14/15 – DS Motors Pompano
-Fuse $29.89
-Shop supplies $4.99
taxes: $2.10
TOTAL: $36.98

07/29/15 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Oil change $33.00
-replace broken
hood holder $2.00
discount: $4.29
TOTAL: $30.71

08/03/15 – DS Motors Pompano
-Front Brake pads (1) $53.41
-Front brake rotors (2) $77.90
-labor $90.00
-Shop supplies $4.99
taxes: $13.58
TOTAL: $239.88

10/21/15 – DS Motors Pompano
-Rear wheel bearing (2) $218.20
-Labor $160.00
-Speakers (Sony) $86.86
-labor $90.00
taxes:$33.31
TOTAL: $588.37

Year 2015 SUBTOTAL: $1,235.13
_____________________________
Year 2016:
04/11/16 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil change $45.00
-New starter $156.50
-labor $90.00
taxes:$17.49
TOTAL: $308.99

06/11/16 –DS Motors Pompano
-New tires (2) $137.90
-Rear wheel bearing (2) $205.26
-labor $160.00
taxes:$30.19
TOTAL:$533.35

09/24/16 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil Change 10W30 $24.95
taxes:$1.50
TOTAL:$26.45

11/17/16 – DS Motors Pompano
-new Battery $124.95
taxes:$7.50
TOTAL: $132.45

Year 2016 SUBTOTAL: $1,001.24
_____________________________
Year 2017:
02/23/17 – DS Motors Pompano
-New Alternator $197.30
-Oil change $24.95
-Blower motor $98.72
-labor $180.00
taxes: $30.06
TOTAL: $531.03

03/14/17 – DS Motors Pompano Beach
-Front wheel bearing $56.50
-Serp belt $38.29
-A/C belt $23.19
-labor $90.00
taxes: $12.48
TOTAL: $220.46

06/28/17 – DS Motors Pompano
-Regular brake $30.00
taxes: $1.80
TOTAL: $31.80

10/06/17 – DS Motors Pompano
-New front
ceramic break pad set $34.95
-New washer fluid pump $28.65
-labor $135.00
-engine oil $10.00
taxes: $12.52
TOTAL: $221.12

12/7/17 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil change $29.95
-Used tire $40.00
taxes:$4.20
TOTAL: $74.15

12/14/17 – Hendrick Honda Stealership
-Engine-General,
check valve cover, cam plug
and oil pan gasket $650.00
-gasket $63.00
-plug $18.54
-gasket $54.87
-Reseal Power Steering pump,
leaking fluid $195.00
-seal $10.90
-O-ring $4.94
-O-ring $5.45
-O-ring $17.67
-O-ring $7.63
-O-ring $7.12
-Seal $11.86
-O-ring $2.65
-tube $10.66
-power fluid $7.79
-service charge $30.00
taxes: $65.89
TOTAL: $1,163.97
Year 2017 SUBTOTAL: $2,242.53
______________________________
Year 2018:
01/04/18 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Oil leaking from drivers
side axel $195.00
-Driveshaft $225.99
-Drivers side mirror $122.99
-service charge $17.55
taxes: $33.70
TOTAL: $595.23

05/24/18 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil change $40.00
-Mirror install $20.00
taxes: $3.60
TOTAL: $63.60

Year 2018 SUBTOTAL: $658.83
__________________________


***END OF DOCUMENT ***
Thanks for reading!!!

Slumpertcivic

ezone

I see some unnecessary items/services, I see some stuff done multiple times that shouldn't be, and I see some (low quality) parts installed and subsequent repeat replacements that are likely due to low quality.


I see some things a person can DIY easily, like air filters


I see some stuff that IS typical for the cars as they wear and age, like suspension parts and maintenance



There's probably stuff I missed, I skimmed this in a hurry
==============




05/29/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-adjust brakes $51.00 Unnecessary
-Bosch 02 sensor $289.99 Low quality (IMHO)
-Remove and replace 02 sensor $88.80
-brake inspection $14.99 They charge for this?
-Shop fee $34.25
-Ext labor warranty $7.65
taxes: $29.21
TOTAL $515.89

06/27/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Conventional oil change $13.54
-QT 5W20 Shell conv ecobox $13.16
-Purolator oil filter $4.49
-1 step mileage improver package: Unnecessary
GUMOUT PRO 1step FSC $9.99
-Cabin air filter replacement:
-labor $15.00
-Purolator cabin air filter $17.99
taxes: $4.46
TOTAL: $78.63

10/16/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
This one is a little unclear
As it appears from the receipt that
I was refunded the money for work
done here. Unfortunately, its too far
back to find out for sure from my
online bank statements
-Bosch 02 sensor $92.38 Low quality IMHO
-Remove and replace 02 sensor $88.80
-Shop fee $14.44
taxes $11.74
TOTAL: $207.36

10/29/13 – Hendrick Honda stealership
Engine-electrical:
-Check engine light on
and no cavity activity in primary
02 sensor, replaced 02 sensor $120.00
-sensor,A 36531 $263.81 Why didn't you return to pep boys for warranty on the (low quality) sensor they installed 5 months prior?
-service charge $7.20
taxes: $23.47
TOTAL: $414.48


On the plus side, the Honda sensor (brand NTK or DENSO) the dealer should have installed is superior (IMHO) to the brand pepboys installed


10/31/13 –Hendrick Honda stealership
-Remove/replace front engine mount $125.00
-stopper $80.44
-service charge $7.50
taxes: $12.78
TOTAL: $225.72

12/17/13 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Wheel alignment $79.99
taxes: $4.80
TOTAL: $84.79
Year 2013 SUBTOTAL: $1,526.87
___________________________
Year 2014:

01/30/14 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Oil and filter change w/ lube $10.00
-Oil change special $23.00
Discount: - $12.41
Taxes:$2.08
TOTAL: $20.59

Service recommended:
“Timing belt package w/ resealing
oil pump and pan” (quoted at $899.95)

03/14/14 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Engine-general
(Oil pump reseal and
oil pan) $375.00
-O-ring $2.69
-Oil seal $11.90
-gasket $49.52
-All civic t/belt $355.38
-belt, TI $43.12
-belt, CO $36.48
-belt, P $30.33
-Water pump $104.84
-Coolant $28.85
-Rubber $80.44
-Cover $29.46
Discount: -$57.44
TOTAL: $1,090.57

04/29/14 - Pep Boys Pompano
-2x Phillips bulbs
low beam head lights and install $51.98
-Pro start 24/72 month battery $110.99
-Florida lead acid battery fee $1.50
-Shop fee $4.14
taxes: $10.12
TOTAL: $178.73

06/14/14 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Prostart starting/charging
system evaluation $16.99 Wasn't anything fixed here?
-Shop fee $1.35
taxes:$1.10
TOTAL:$19.44


08/13/14 – Bocas Best auto repair
-Starter assembly standard Low quality part again
Trans, 1.7L engine $178.27
-Remove and replace starter $99.00
-Shop supplies $5.00
taxes: $16.65
Discount: -$4.90
TOTAL: $294.02

09/30/14 - Hendrick Honda stealership
-Adjust rear brakes
cleaned and adjusted
rear brake shoes $40.00 Adjusting and cleaning is never necessary IMHO.
-Valve cover gasket
replaced and cleaned due
to leaking oil $125.00 They JUST replaced the same gasket in March! Why are you charged for this again? Warranty!
-gasket $63.00
-Service charge $30.00
-Tire tax $4.00
-Tire disposal fee $16.00
-front lower control arm
bushings split,
remove and replace $375.00
-front bushing $73.00
-Suspension,
ball joint boot
are broken,
replace front lower ball joint
boots $125.00
-boot $16.12
-Wheel Alignment $79.95
-Brake flush $88.00
-Brake fluid $12.00
-Replace 4 tires $80.00
-Dunlop tires $300.00
taxes:$84.42
TOTAL: $1,511.50

10/02/14 – Pep Boys Pompano Beach
-Power steering package:
-Flush (labor) $36.99
-16oz/32oz steering flush $9.99 I wonder if this "flush" product may have caused the power steering pump leaks that the dealership had to repair later on
-GU NK 12oz Honda fluid $4.99
-Transmission fluid exchange
with filter change (labor) $96.12
-PB/Proline AT trans filter $28.49
-QT IMP MV Castrol $83.88
-Remove and replace
rear struts $216.30
-PB/Monroe OEM struts (2) $233.98
-Computerized wheel alignment $84.99
-PB/Monroe rear strut
mounting kit (2) $25.98
-shop fee $35.00
taxes:$51.40
TOTAL: $908.11

10/27/14 Hendrick Honda Stealership
-Cabin filter replacement $30.00
-Cabin filter $29.90
-service charge $2.70
taxes:$3.76
TOTAL: $66.36
Year 2014 SUBTOTAL: $4,089.32
___________________________
Year 2015:
03/14/15 – DS Motors Pompano
-Fuse $29.89
-Shop supplies $4.99
taxes: $2.10
TOTAL: $36.98

07/29/15 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Oil change $33.00
-replace broken
hood holder $2.00
discount: $4.29
TOTAL: $30.71

08/03/15 – DS Motors Pompano
-Front Brake pads (1) $53.41
-Front brake rotors (2) $77.90
-labor $90.00
-Shop supplies $4.99
taxes: $13.58
TOTAL: $239.88

10/21/15 – DS Motors Pompano
-Rear wheel bearing (2) $218.20 Ummmmmmmm..
-Labor $160.00
-Speakers (Sony) $86.86
-labor $90.00
taxes:$33.31
TOTAL: $588.37

Year 2015 SUBTOTAL: $1,235.13
_____________________________
Year 2016:
04/11/16 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil change $45.00
-New starter $156.50 Different shop, replacing a 2 year old starter with yet another low quality part. How long til this one fails again?
-labor $90.00
taxes:$17.49
TOTAL: $308.99

06/11/16 –DS Motors Pompano
-New tires (2) $137.90
-Rear wheel bearing (2) $205.26 Same shop just replaced rear wheel bearings less than one year ago. Should be under warranty (most upstanding shops give at least one year warranty on parts and labor). Why are you charged for yet another one? Or two?
-labor $160.00
taxes:$30.19
TOTAL:$533.35

09/24/16 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil Change 10W30 $24.95
taxes:$1.50
TOTAL:$26.45

11/17/16 – DS Motors Pompano
-new Battery $124.95 Battery only lasts 2.5 years there? Seems odd to me.
taxes:$7.50
TOTAL: $132.45

Year 2016 SUBTOTAL: $1,001.24
_____________________________
Year 2017:
02/23/17 – DS Motors Pompano
-New Alternator $197.30 How long will it last?
-Oil change $24.95
-Blower motor $98.72
-labor $180.00
taxes: $30.06
TOTAL: $531.03

03/14/17 – DS Motors Pompano Beach
-Front wheel bearing $56.50
-Serp belt $38.29
-A/C belt $23.19 The dealer replaced both of these belts when the timing belt job was completed. These belts, if they were genuine OE brands, are expected to last as long as the timing belt (7 years/100k miles)
-labor $90.00
taxes: $12.48
TOTAL: $220.46

06/28/17 – DS Motors Pompano
-Regular brake $30.00 Regular brake what?
taxes: $1.80
TOTAL: $31.80

10/06/17 – DS Motors Pompano-New front
ceramic break pad set $34.95 Brakes only lasted 2 years? How many miles did the brakes last?
-New washer fluid pump $28.65
-labor $135.00
-engine oil $10.00
taxes: $12.52
TOTAL: $221.12

12/7/17 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil change $29.95
-Used tire $40.00
taxes:$4.20
TOTAL: $74.15

12/14/17 – Hendrick Honda Stealership
-Engine-General,
check valve cover, cam plug
and oil pan gasket They just had the oil pan off when they did the timing belt/oil pump reseal in 2013. This really shouldn't have been leaking if it was done correctly IMO, but it did last long beyond their typical warranty period. It should have lasted as long as the original.



$650.00 Seems a bit steep for just the above work IMO, but I guess I don't have all the info here.



-gasket $63.00
-plug $18.54
-gasket $54.87
-Reseal Power Steering pump,
leaking fluid $195.00
-seal $10.90
-O-ring $4.94
-O-ring $5.45
-O-ring $17.67
-O-ring $7.63
-O-ring $7.12
-Seal $11.86
-O-ring $2.65
-tube $10.66
-power fluid $7.79
-service charge $30.00
taxes: $65.89
TOTAL: $1,163.97
Year 2017 SUBTOTAL: $2,242.53
______________________________
Year 2018:
01/04/18 – Hendrick Honda stealership
-Oil leaking from drivers
side axel $195.00
-Driveshaft $225.99
-Drivers side mirror $122.99
-service charge $17.55
taxes: $33.70
TOTAL: $595.23

05/24/18 – DS Motors Pompano
-Oil change $40.00
-Mirror install $20.00 Didn't you just buy a mirror from the dealer?
taxes: $3.60
TOTAL: $63.60

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Man good job hunting all that info down!!! It’s great being able to see it all!!

Yes a lot of your “repairs” are easy DIY and many of the multiple ones would have been fixed with the correct part (OEM) and not been a problem again. Bosch sensors are junk for Honda’s. Aftermarket alternators and starters are the same way.

I was a service writer for a short amount of time in between jobs and we charged $100 for a tune up!!! On a 4 cylinder Honda that’s ridiculous and they used junk plugs.

I agree with ezone’s comments though and after seeing the cost break down and what was done yes that is definitely excessive maintenance cost!!

ezone

You worked where? Independent? Chain store? Dealership?

I didn't really want to comment on the prices much because of what I do...and I don't do numbers. I think prices are astronomical because just about anything and everything mechanical is DIY for me on my own cars.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Pep Boys...for 3 months. I wasn’t very good at it because I didn’t lie or pressure people. We did have a few excellent techs though that I would have work on my car. They left dealerships because of the drama and politics.

Brake job I think was around $200 for basic. Stuff like O2 sensor was kinda flat fee like the tune up but on most Honda’s it’s a piece of cake to reach stuff.

Oil change was every 3k for regular and 5k for synthetic. So they were getting extra business for that. People would bring in BMW’s and Mercedes, I just shook my head.

gnurmi

Thanks a lot for your notes ezone!! One crucial mistake I always seemed to make was deciding to repair in a hurry because, "**** I need my car running now so I can get to work, etc. and not spend a fortune on cabs or a rental." In retrospect, it would've been worth it to take cabs or Uber/Lyft, while I thought about the best course of action. Also, as you pointed out, I even managed to overlook work that was done on the car 2x although it should have been under warranty. Going forward I'll always type up reports of what is done to my ride so I can easily reference what was done in the past. Those paper service records, at least for me, tend to get filed away and never looked at again. I'll most definitely DIY the simple stuff too, ensuring that I use a quality part and it's done right the first time around.

gnurmi

I figured it would reveal some ignorance on my part, haha, but the more info for all the better.

gnurmi

Thanks GolNat, compiling these records was a real eye-opener for me, I can't believe how many things I shouldn't have had to pay for or paid for twice!! On the other hand, I have a feeling a record like mine is common for noobs and a good lesson to keep meticulous, typed records. Or better yet, a simple database, I'm sure to save thousands going forward. Big thanks to all

ezone

Second opinions can be valuable, but only if the opinion has your best interest in mind.
Shop hopping (floating) can be quite costly.

gnurmi

I'll definitely keep that in mind, appreciate the sound advice!