Sethdewey

Hi guys i really need some advice here just swapped motors in my 1997 civic ex coupe went from the d16y8 to the zc 1.6 non vtec jdm motor an now it wont fire an the d4 light on the cluster just flickers along with clicking under the passanger side dash....used the same tranny same intake an same distributor only thing different is the motor an all the plugs an stuff on the harness plugged back it except for vtec car ran before this was done an now im lost please help

Wankenstein

Which ECU are you using?

Sethdewey

Not sure its the one that was already on it i didnt change it or anything

Wankenstein

Is it a single or dual cam?
Are you using the distributor that came with the engine or the Y8's distributor from old engine?

My guess is it's a SOHC engine like this one: http://www.jdmflorida.com/index.php?...product_id=136
If that's the case your car's current obd2 ECU should work with it as long as the Vtec harness is not plugged in where it's not supposed to be. The Vtec harness shouldn't be plugged in at all with the ZC Non-Vtec engine.
If you purchased a dual overhead cam ZC engine you're going to need an OBD 0 or 1 ecu to run it.

Here's Wikipedia's description:
A few D-series variants are labelled (Japanese: Honda ZC engine) (usually JDM), but they are not truly a different series. They are similar to the D16Y4, D16A8, D16Z6, D16A1, D16A3, D16A6, D16A9 and D16Z5 engines.
There are both SOHC and DOHC ZC engines. The non-VTEC SOHC ZC is similar to the D16A6 ('91–'96) and D16Y4 ('96–2000) engine, but with more aggressive cam timing. The SOHC VTEC ZC is similar to the D16Z6 ('91–'96). The DOHC ZC is similar to the D16A1, D16A3, D16A8, D16A9 and D16Z5 engines.

Is the ZC engine you purchased from an automatic or manual transmission?
Is your '97 EX an automatic or manual transmsission?
Does the ZC engine have a knock sensor?

Wankenstein

Here's an additional post that may help: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...civic-1648444/ Also, try the links in reply #17 in that post.

Also, within that post check out reply #25. The replier suggest to use the intake D16Y8 manifold on the ZC engine. I can't confirm if this is good advice or not. However, it would provide a place for the Vtec harness to be plugged into if the ECU won't cooperate without it being attached. The problem I can forsee though is your engine may top out at 5,500 rpm (that's when Vtec kicks in on Y8 model) and will most likely throw a Vtec solenoid related CEL.

Here's a thread that may help: http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threa...oblems.207799/

Dig through this and maybe find an answer: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...lights-878010/ The dudes over at Honda Tech are more into engine swaps than here..but, even on that site there's not as many knowledgable "swaps" people as there once was ten years ago.

Sethdewey

I was told its sohc non vtec which is the one thats obd2 an should work with my current setup...an vtec isnt plugged into anything i checked that already...an i used the same transmkssion from the y8 to the zc its automatic an i do believe that tranny does have a knock sensor on it....an i did use the intake manifold off of the y8 to the zc only thing thats not the same as before is the motor everything else was converted like distributor,intake manifold, i even had to put the crank sensor an the pulley that it points too from the old motor to the new one cauae new one didnt have that sensor or the correct pulley for the sensor to work right

Wankenstein

Yes..current ECU should work.

Okay.

Knock sensor is for engine block..not the transmission.
My question was: Do you know if the JDM ZC was pulled from an automatic or manual transmission vehicle? It may not matter either way so, probably not pertinent if you don't know which.

When you say pulley do you mean the crank pulley or the timing/crank gear that's behind the crank pulley?
Yes, I've read that the ZC doesn't use a crank sensor so the swapping the one from the old engine to the new makes sense. Was there already a threaded hole in the block to put the crank sensor bolt in or did you have to tap a threaded hole in?

Sethdewey

O ok yea im not sure what tranny was on the zc previously.....idk what pulley you would call it but its the one behind the balancer that the timing belt is on an the new motor had the spot to bolt the crank sensor too it just wasnt there before when i got the motor an i had to swap that pulley cauae it has a gear at the end of it that the sensor points to so it can read an the new motor had a different pulley that wouldnt work with the sensor...does anything have to be changed or anything or something i missed when swapping to that sohc zc will the auro tranny work on the zc?

Sethdewey

Here is some pics idk if thwy will help or not

Wankenstein

Crank Gear.
Yes, there a notch in the crank gear that aligns with the arrow on block (near oil pump) when the first cylinder is at TDC.

Did you intsall a new timing belt, tensioner, waterpump?
Did you perform a valves adjustment?

I have no idea..you did the swap.
Unfortunately, the particular swap you did is not well documented via internet threads. Most don't bother going down in power from a Vtec to a non-Vtec unless swapping for a larger displacement engine such as a B18, B20, etc..

A lot of research needs to be done prior to performing an engine swap or issues arise. Even with prior research issues can still arise. If, one doesn't have an experienced person guiding them things can easily go wrong. Do you know if you have the correct size/type of fuel injectors? Is the IACV a two or three wire, or same as engine harness? .

I don't have much transmission experience so hopefully someone else will chime in. Though the car in this link isn't a Honda it's a discussion about the subject: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/aut...l-trans.54436/ Reply #6 seems pertinent

Sethdewey

Yea i dont believe i nocked it out of time eithwr swapping that pulley cause it doesnt sound any different trying to turn it over the before....yea i know i did the swap i mean as far as that swap goes on on paper like nothing had to be added or deleted for the swap to work cauae i was told the only thing that had to be done in the first place was swap the intakes an as far as injectors go there same intake an injectors from the y8 an from what i was told should work on this motor....an yea ppl dont usually do this kind of swap but im not after power jus reliability a cut it power doesnt bother me its jus the old motor was about done for as you can see on the old tranny verse the new motor how much oil is on the tranny from the old motor it burned leaked all the time....an to my knowledge every single wire on the harness from the old motor plugged right into the new one besides vtec othwr then that everything looks the same as before as far as i know we have looked over the wiring a few times but at this point its out of my league of knowledge

Sethdewey

An no i didnt adjust valves or change timing belt motor has around 60k miles so its still relatively new an should have been a plug an play type situation but you know how that goes

Wankenstein

JDM sellers claim their imported engines are low mileage but there's no way to confirm or prove that they are. That topic has been debated over the years on many sites. Anyway, yes you should check/adjust the valves because you don't know if they are out of spec.

If you get it running then it's best you replace the timing belt, waterpump, tensioner soon after because mileage is questionable and it's just good practice for engine swaps. Your call though..just keep in mind that it's an interference engine and if the belt snaps valves can bend.

Did you reconfirm mechanical (cam/crank) timing prior to and after install?

Sethdewey

Yea that is true but as far as i know it got around "60k"...an no we didnt adjust nothing on the engine itself but we plan to check timing ect....an after we get it running we prolly will replace water pump an things but i jus want it to fire up an run at this point then figure out whats next....another thing i forgot to mention when turninf it over for about 5-10 seonds it only sparks like once or twice but we cant figure out if the d4 light is making it do that becauae its telling the car something is wrong or if its something else makeming it spark like that my buddy js a mechanic an hes comkng over today to look over what has been done an see if he spots anything that could be causing it an also gona hook the scanner to it an see if its throwing any codes an what not

Wankenstein

Check main relay and yes I know vid car is a '94 Accord but same principle.:

Sethdewey

Yea i seen that video the only time it flashes like that is when i unplug the sensor on the tranny thats on the bottom toward the outside of it by the tire but if its not unpluged it jus flickers an clicks under the passenger side dash an the flickering d4 light matches the clicking under the dash an also when i unplug that tranny plug the clicking under the dash stops too until i turn it over to try an start it then it does it

Dude, please use periods and sentence breaks. Your posts read out as one long sentence that all jumble together. You breath when you talk, right? Apply that here.

So, being that it's a crank but no start issue:
Are the cylinders getting fuel?
Did you try starting the engine with the gas pedal pushed to the floor? This shuts off the injectors and allows as much air in as possible for combustion ..possible the cylinders may be flooded.

After trying gas pedal to floor..if it doesn't start try spraying starter spray or throttle body spray into the throttle body while cranking.

Wankenstein

Dude, please use periods and sentence breaks. Your posts read out as one long sentence that all jumble together. You breath when you talk, right? Apply that here.

So, being that it's a crank but no start issue:
Are the cylinders getting fuel?
Did you try starting the engine with the gas pedal pushed to the floor? This shuts off the injectors and allows as much air in as possible for combustion ..possible the cylinders may be flooded.

After trying gas pedal to floor..if it doesn't start try spraying starter spray or throttle body spray into the throttle body while cranking.

Sethdewey

Sorry jus trying to get stuff typed quick to try an figure this out. An as far as the getting fuel we took the fuel line off the fuel rail it it shoots gas so it atleast getting fuel to there. Ive tried pushing the gas pedal but i havnt held it to the floor. Wouldnt it have to spark more then it is to even fire tho? Even with starting fluid?

Wankenstein

Probably so.

Is firing order correct? Have a known working distributor or igniter and coil you can try?

Sethdewey

As far as i know its correct its the same distributor with the same firing order as the old motor an it worked on the other motor the car was a daily driver. all i did was pull it off an put it on the new motor an put new plugs and wires on

Sethdewey

Unless i do have to change the firing order on it but i dont see why. Could the same distributor be changed to different firing orders? Reason i swapped them is the distributor that came with the new motor didnt have the same plug as my harness. But the old one still bolted right up on the new motor

Wankenstein

Not sure what more I can add but here's a few more questions:
*Did you manually crank the engine over at any point to ensure engine is not hydro-locked?
* Confirm mechanical timing at first cylinder TDC
* Does the starter sound healthy, not dragging, cranking engine properly
* Check all engine and chassis grounds
* Check spark arc/quality at coil and igniter using a long screwdriver to solid ground (chassis).
* With spark plugs removed do cylinders smell like fuel after cranking

Wankenstein

Most likely 1-3-4-2 firing order but I can't verify that

Sure, but there's only one firing order that will work correctly.

That may be concerning?
I don't have the particular knowledge to say if it's an issue or not.

Sethdewey

Well when we put the torque converter on the new motor we had to spin it to get all the bolts on an it spun fine on that end. Starter sounds fine it actually seems like the is cranking over rather faster then usual but could jus be me. Do you know off top of your head how many grounds theres suppose to be? We will be checking the spark here in a bit when my buddy comes over. I bave not pulled tbe plugs yet since i replaced them to see if there is a fuel smell thats on my list of things to do. I will respond back after my buddy looks at everything an let you knlw of we come up with anything

Sethdewey

An thanks for your help even if the solutions you gave dont solve the problem its still good to get knowledge on the subject. But i will respond back later hopefully with the problem solved lol

Wankenstein

Okay.
My assumption concerning grounds is the same amount as the old engine.
D16 grounds diagram:

Sethdewey

Ok so we found some stuff out its not getting gas for one. There wasnt a knock sensor on the new motor so we took it off an but it on the new one but the plug for it on the harness is messed up. We can get it to run off spraying gas in the intake so it seems like something is telling the injectors not to work

Sethdewey

Got it figured out!!!! I got word that the ground that bolts to the thremostat housing is the ground for the injectors. So i cleaned it up an bam! Runs great. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me about the subject i appreciate it! Now onto the suspension work.

Congrats!

Did the old engine have a thermostat ground? I can't recall either way on my old '98 EX..my current '95 EX has one. Glad to hear you got it sorted out.
Do yourself a favor and change the timing belt, tensioner, water pump within a few months. Also check valves clearances soon.

Wankenstein

Congrats!

Did the old engine have a thermostat ground? I can't recall either way on my old '98 EX..my current '95 EX has one. Glad to hear you got it sorted out.
Do yourself a favor and change the timing belt, tensioner, water pump within a few months. Also check valves clearances soon.

Sethdewey

Yea it had a ground also cause it was on the harness. An we will get that stuff changed soon