WaryDriver

My 98 civic dx w/ manual transmission did not come with cruise control. So I got the servo, module, and related parts at a junkyard from a same type manual transmission Civic except it had factory cruise control since it was an ex or lx not dx. My plans from the beginning were to cut and connect the servo cable directly to the throttle instead of through the firewall and attached to the gas pedal. So that I wouldnt have to swap the gas and brake pedal system from that donor car.

But, the wires in plugs of the brake and clutch pedal are different for a cruise control car if I'm not mistaken because the module needs to know when either brake or clutch is hit. Can I not just remove these plugs from the donor car and swap with my brake and clutch plugs (they'll fit, right?) or do I need to take the entire pedal system from the cruise control car?



I also plan to take the steering wheel next trip since it has the wires for cruise behind it and the controls. Do you see any problems with this? Is there anything in the steering column I need to take? I assume its just all wires down the tube to the module.

ezone

You would need the 2 switches, and you would need to run a batch of new wiring from the switches to the cruise control unit and be able to plug them into the connector, which means having the correct terminals to splice onto those wires.

Cruise main switch
brake switch
clutch switch
control unit
servo and cable
steering wheel
cable reel (clockspring)
indicator light in the gauge cluster?
And all the connectors for each part plus all the wire you can get with each connector

Plus a lot of wiring you'll have to DIY if it isn't already built into the harnesses in the car. I don't think the car is prewired so there will be a lot of wires to deal with.


An add on aftermarket cruise control might be simpler.

WaryDriver

Yes, I'm just going to splice the brake and clutch switch wires dont need the plugs. No problem Im seeing except that..

I need another throttle cable bracket mount thats longer with two holes instead of one that mounts on the intake manifold. This is where the servo cable needs to mount, not another location with a separate bracket. I don't have metal fabrication equipment. I already have an extra arm on the throttle for attaching the servo cable. How can I get another bracket made or order one with these dimensions that has two holes?

ezone

IDK...Get a second bracket and mount it alongside the original?

WaryDriver

Looks like its not a hole but instead two rails. Wish the rails were longer and not curved like they are at the ends to keep the gas cable from vibrating sliding out.

I have a vice that I could put the rails in and straighten. Even then i dont know if that would make rails quite long enough for slipping in another cable. Actually that washer nut holding the gas cable could be replaced with a same size nonwasher nut then there would be room for another cable after flattening the rails in the vice.

ezone

I was thinking of making a square plate with 4 holes, put it under the first bracket and then bolt a second bracket to the other pair of holes in the square plate.

IDK, just thinking.
You might wander around the wrecking yard looking at other cars and find something else usable.

WaryDriver

Do I need the vacuum tank? Does it keep low pressure and that is needed some way for it to work right? What is its purpose and why can't I just tee the cruise vacuum hose directly with the brake booster vacuum hose? See diagram..

ezone

It's a reservoir connected to the intake manifold vacuum source and it uses a check valve, so there is strong vacuum source available for the cruise actuator to use even when the engine is not creating enough vacuum.
Make sure to get the check valve.
I'd set it up just like the factory did.

WaryDriver

What is the purpose of the VENT HOSE at the bottom of diagram below. I have that hose floating downwards with the tip open to engine bay air. But on the car I took it from, I think i jerked it out of the windshield washer reservoir. Is this for keeping the servo cool from taking air from down in the windshield washer reservoir? That's the only thing I can think of for a vent hose. Don't know if my windshield washer reservoir is tapped for this to plug into looks like I'll have to remove the front bumper since thats how I got it out of the car in the junkyard.

ezone

It's exactly what it says. It's a vent. Open to atmosphere.
Maybe NEAR but not IN.

I think it should just be stuck onto a plastic nipple stuck in the frame, it may have a small filter thing on the end to keep bugs and crap out of the hose.
It's been a long while since I've been intimate with a 6th gen car.
Ha! No.

It's a place for pressure and vacuum to go or be sucked from as the servo is applied and released during operation. If you plug it off the vacuum operated servo (diaphragm) may not work.

If you leave the vent hose dangling in the engine compartment it will work but it may get dirt and bugs sucked into it which could eventually clog the filter element. The empty space inside the frame rail or body chambers is usually relatively quiet, airflow-wise.


HTH

WaryDriver

The cruise indicator light does not come on when cruise master switch button is either pushed or released. EDIT: The cluster for an ex that has cruise has a 4 pin jack in the back of the cluster for the cruise indicator light. So maybe this RED/BLU module wire is a signal wire, I want to get hold of a good schematic to tell. So, its looking like I'd need a cluster with a cruise jack after all, and it will have the cruise indicator light built in.

More importantly, I'm not getting any servo action when going over 25mph, cruise button engaged, and hitting the SET/accel button. I don't have the steering wheel controller hooked up in the steering wheel harness, but instead it's dangling from its three wires Ive connected where they seem to belong. Below is my wiring..

Cruise module wire ---> place of attachment
BLUE/WHT ---> BLUE/WHT in back of cluster which is the VSS wire
RED/BLU ---> LED + EDIT: This led doesn't come on. Maybe the RED/Blu along with other wires has to go to cluster that has cruise jack
BLACK ---> Chassis
PINK ---> Clutch PNK/WHT
GREEN/WHT ---> Brake GREEN/WHT
GRAY --> Brake WHITE/GRN
LIGHT GREEN ----> Brake GREEN/WHITE
LIGHT GREEN ---> Master CRUISE SW
LIGHTGRN/RED --> SET/decel SW
LIGHTGRN/BLK --> RESUME/accel SW
BROWN/BLK --> Cruise Actuator BROWN/BLK (thru firewall)
BROWN ----> Cruise Acuator BROWN (thru firewall)
BROWN/WHT --> Cruise Acuator BROWN/WHT (thru firewall)

Cruise master switch wire ---> place of attachment
YELLOW/BLK ----> YELLOW/BLK wire to fuse box
LIGHTGREEN---> Cruise module LIGHTGREEN
BLACK ---> Dimmer BLACK
RED ---> Dimmer RED
RED/BLK -----> Dimmer RED/BLK


Flipped over, the other side of module plug wires..


There are 3 black wires coming from the steering wheel cruise controller circuit board. The circuit board has labeled these wires as S, R, and H. S=SET/decel tied to LIGHTGRN/RED, R=RESUME/accel tied to LIGHTGRN/BLK, and H(=what does H stand for?) i've wrapped to Chassis since that made sense given the circuit board below. Im just noticing how rough that soldering looks Im going to check continuity between the three pins.

ezone

The light inside the main switch should light up at this time if you have a power (blk/yel, t3) and a ground (blk, terminal 1) in the right places. The 3rd feeds power to the control unit (lt grn, t2).
There are two incandescent bulbs inside the switch (they burn out easily), one is the indicator and the other comes on with the other dash illumination (t4 and t5) lights.

Not the light in the cluster. That's to indicate when cruise is activated.


I only noticed a single wire between cruise control unit and the cluster, it's to turn on the "cruise control" light. The connector used may have 4 wires, but if you know what it takes to operate the light you could put the light just about anywhere you want.

According to the wiring diagram I have, the cruise switches receive power through the Horn relay, so I'll guess that's the H you see.

You really need a good wiring diagram to go much further.

WaryDriver

The actuator I isolated and tested and it passed the tests using test procedures i found in a honda manual. The problem Im having is either the module (control unit) being bad or else my wiring. I found someone's test procedures from http://www.civic-eg.com/causeforalar...trol/index.php
for their EG but would be the same for mine in the following tests which resulted as...

Black wire- continuity to ground. PASSED
Blk/yel wire- battery voltage when key is in 2nd position. PASSED
Lt grn wire- battery voltage when key is in 2nd position, main switch on. PASSED
Gray wire- key in 2nd position, main switch on, press brake pedal, 0 volts. Release brake pedal, battery voltage. PASSED
Grn/wh wire -push brake pedal, battery voltage. Release brake pedal, 0 volts. PASSED
Red/blu- ignition in 2nd position, ground this wire and the Cruise Indicator Light should come on. I don't have an indicator dash light, but this wire is always 0 volts as grounded
Lt grn/blk- hold Resume button, battery voltage. FAILED
Lt grn/red- hold Set button, battery voltage. FAILED
Pink- clutch pedal released or auto tranny in Park or Neutral no continuity to ground. PASSED
Clutch pedal pressed or auto tranny in any other setting, continuity to ground. PASSED

There were errors in my wiring which I fixed before doing those tests. Went back and got the brake switch i thought I didnt need before thinking i could just splice my singe pole switch. Brake switch for a cruise car a double pole for brakes (normally open) and cruise (NC).

Cruise module wire ---> place of attachment
BLUE/WHT ---> BLUE/WHT in back of cluster which is the VSS wire
RED/BLU ---> 0 Volts, floating
BLACK ---> Chassis
PINK ---> Clutch PNK/WHT
GREEN/WHT ---> Brake GREEN/WHT
GRAY --> Brake GRAY
LIGHT GREEN ----> Brake LIGHT GREEN
LIGHT GREEN ---> Master CRUISE SW LIGHT GREEN
LIGHTGRN/RED --> SET/decel SW
LIGHTGRN/BLK --> RESUME/accel SW
BROWN/BLK --> Cruise Actuator BROWN/BLK (thru firewall)
BROWN ----> Cruise Acuator BROWN (thru firewall)
BROWN/WHT --> Cruise Acuator BROWN/WHT (thru firewall)

Cruise master switch wire ---> place of attachment
YELLOW/BLK ----> YELLOW/BLK wire to fuse box 12 Volts when key in 2nd position
LIGHTGREEN---> Cruise module LIGHTGREEN 12 Volts when key in 2nd position
BLACK ---> Dimmer BLACK
RED ---> Dimmer RED
RED/BLK -----> Dimmer RED/BLK

Problems: Cruise Main switch doesn't turn green and the switch is good and have gotten hold of other switches that dont turn light up green either when engaged. The dimmer light works in the button (illumniates the word CRUISE when lights are on and dims) but not the green indicator when I press and release to engaged position.

Steering wheel controller doesn't toggle voltages because its always zero volts on those control wires Light green /red and light green/ black to begin with (not 12 V like it should be in the beginning for them without hitting a SET or RESUME. Hitting SET or the RESUME button should make the corresponding the wire go to zero volts). Maybe its because Cruise never engages, never turns the main switch green ever is why those wires are zero volts always. Does anyone have a wiring diagram or more thorough test procedures for my sixth generation Civic? I've found EG diagrams and seventh generation diagrams not 6th generation.

ezone

The diagram doesn't show how this bulb is connected within the clusters internal dimming circuit. (other dash lights use a variable ground for dimming, but this one probably uses a variable positive....so be careful.)
Without knowing what size bulb is really in a cluster cruise light, I assume you could use one of the tiny dash light bulbs as an indicator light for the moment, connect one side of the bulb to switched ignition 12v+ (black/yellow from the main switch?) and the other side to your control unit.
With the key on, when you ground the wire now the bulb would light.

In the parts catalog, 1.4 watt seems to be the smallest bulb used in the cluster so any wattage up to that would seem to be a safe wattage to start with.
I have no idea how much current the control unit output driver can handle safely, I'd hate to use a higher wattage bulb and burn out the control unit
Yellow/black is shown in my diagram as black/yellow, as in black with a yellow stripe. This comes from fuse #14 in the dash box.


Light green should become 12v when the main switch is in the on position, and should be open when the switch is off (assuming the control unit and brake switch are disconnected for this check.

Black is supposed to be connected to chassis ground, not the dimmer (although the black wire at the dimmer wheel should be a chassis ground, so you could use it).

If the green light does not come on now, the bulb may be burned out. If the illumination bulb works, swap them.




Refer to post #12 and a wiring diagram, these switches are tied in with the horn relay circuit to receive their power source on the black wire.
The wiring diagram indicates to me each switch would likely send a 12v signal to the control unit when depressed.



I only see one light green in my diagram, from the cruise main switch to terminal 13 on the c.u., I don't see a light green from a brake switch.


Another thought, my diagram shows a few terminal variations for 96-97 cars, different from 98 and later. Make sure you are wiring for the right setup?

HTH

WaryDriver

Those wires can be connected and how I had it in the beginning. Then instead i put a wire on fuse#14 7.5A to get power to be safe because i wasn't sure about that black/ylw wire.

Yes, main switch has always done this correctly. Had 3 switches and all 3 green bulbs were bad.

Yes, I'd connected both to chassis to be sure.

I had 3 switches, therefore six bulbs. Amazingly, five bulbs were bad. All the green ones were bad only one clear worked. Switches were good like I said before i did the continuity test for them, and changed the voltages correctly just so many bad bulbs. So I put the one good bulb plugged in the main switch light which comes on when button is engaged then off correctly.

YES. The whole time I've been thinking those input control wires start with voltage then lose their voltage to signal when a button is pushed because of misreading test procedures so thought the module was not working right. After reading this is how it worked I knew it would work so put H pin to a power wire so then the controller worked. Still have to find the Blue/Grn or gray wire leading to the cable reel or after so I can splice with the H wire before the horn switch.



Everything is working and every control button works since yesterday except that it is jerky when cruising. Every second or two going 30-50 mph in 4th and 5th gear it is jerky and makes my head go back and forth to keep the correct speed. So I tightened the servo cable to where it is perfectly taunt and gas pedal cable is equally taunt. So, I now I'm thinking either 1. the servo cable is has too sharp of an angle and stressed (see pic below.. Is it too stressed? I coated entire servo cable with vasoline to help cable to glide inside housing. ) or 2. vacuum leak (I have a tee in the brake booster vacuum hose which I've not checked for leaks). My next step is to check for a vacuum leak and to rehose this. Brake booster vacuum hose I replaced with a fuel hose years ago and cant get it off now exetremly tight on the intake manifold and brake booster.

ezone

Vaseline might ruin the rubber parts, so watch out.

I see the cable is kinda pulled over at an angle right at the metal threaded part.
If you think it may be a cable problem, get into the servo end of the cable and work the cable by hand to see if it can pull the throttle open smoothly or if it works jerky.


Vacuum source, are you using the vacuum storage canister (reservoir) and does the vacuum line have the check valve correctly installed in it?

If the intake has a nipple tapped into manifold vac, I'd use that instead of tapping the brake booster line.

WaryDriver

It doesn't unlike the LX Civic took it from so I've tee'd the brake booster line.

Rehosed that brake booster line 3 times got another hose even. Check valve is in place leading to vacuum canister. Haven't gotten a vacuum gauge yet to see for sure if there is a leak.

Straightened throttle cable housing so its not angled as hard. Played with that throttle cable a lot and not fixing jerkiness.

What I mean by jerky:
When cruising only, every other second there is slight throttle jerk it seems. You can look down at the shifter which kicks back slightly as if gas was given then forward then that happens again and again, the same movement as head movement every second. It doesn't matter what speed or gear. 30 mph in 3rd or 75 mph in 5th there is still this jerking when cruising only.

I'm going to keep testing for vacuum leaking by getting a gauge and for throttle cable problems. Although, what would you try next? It's ONLY when cruising at a set speed.

ezone

See if the cable movement is not smooth first
Then maybe try changing the amount of slack in the cable.

How is the cable attached to the throttle?

Was it jerky on the car you removed it from?

Is there anyplace to adjust sensitivity?

To maintain a set speed, the control unit continually sends signals to open and close the throttle as it sees fit, so it may be normal? (Of course I can't feel it.) I have a document that says 2-3 mph variation from set speed can be normal.

And lastly, could the vacuum controls inside the servo (or the servo diaphragm itself) have some leakage that causes the control unit to keep making constant corrections?

WaryDriver

Here is my video with a vacuum gauge installed, idling and then throttle action:
The needle wobbles and shakes between 20 and 21inHg. But doesn't drop below 20 idling. So that means not a vacuum leak, correct? Before installing the gauge, I sprayed hoses and connections leading to the intake manifold with carb cleaner trying to find a vacuum leak but no audible change in idle when spraying that I could hear. The vacuum gauge's needle shaking I've read can indicate my valves need adjusting (they never have been adjusted and nearly 200k miles). Could this be causing my cruise control to jerk/surge every other second? From the video, what should I do? And let me know if I should do more thorough tests with the gauge installed.

It's smooth when I pull from the servo end. I've repositioned the cable and housing so much, adjusted the nuts, etc. Doesnt affect jerkiness when cruise is set.

Tried this. Went from being taunt to slacky. Then, set to 1/2 inch deflection which is spec.

A metal arm is bolted to the center of the gas pedal's throttle pulley.See pic.


I don't know. That car was wrecked.

Thought maybe it needs to be recalibrated for my car somehow but the donor car had the same engine d16y7. It was a sedan 97 lx. Mine is hatchback 98 dx.

Definitely not normal and unacceptable. Ive never driven a car that cruises jerky like this, cars made before mine's year. Becomes annoying quickly. When the ACCEL button is held, there is no jerkiness. Car accelerates smoothly when holding that button. And when DECEL is held, there is no jerkiness. Car deaccelerates smoothly holding that button. It's only after I hit the SET button on any speed over 25mph and each 3rd, 4th and 5th gear it's jerky. Havent tried 2nd or 1st gear, too low for cruising 25+.

Guess I could drive around with this vacuum gauge mounted to my windshield and see if vacuum is lost when Cruise is engaged and SET. Is this the best way to test this?

ezone

I was not thinking of vacuum leaks in the line to the manifold or the reservoir, I meant leakage within the servo housing.
The diaphragm itself could be leaking or maybe either of the solenoids that apply and vent vacuum to the diaphragm may be "bleeding" instead of sealing their passage completely.

WaryDriver

I removed the (Denso) MAP sensor in the back of the TB. Spray cleaned with MAF cleaner and its hole. Reinstalled, and that did not fix. Doing that was just a guess of something it might could be.

Removed spark plugs and regapped them then swapped their cylinders. Their gaps were 1.3 and needed to be 1.1mm. That didn't fix CC. I'm going to get a new set today since cylinder 4's plug's electrode is round and cylinder 1's plug's electrode had part of it broken off over the years.

Besides the servo/acctuator, what else could it be that's causing terky/bucking/surging/pulsing throttle to keep the correct "set" speed? It's only when I'm using cruise control and set speed. Never when gas pedal is used to maintain speed w/o using cruise there is no jerking.

Because I'm going to the junkyard this afternoon to pull another actuator, map sensor, and throttle position sensor. And would like to know if theres something else I should pull or try cleaning before I go to the junkyard again. Can you give me a list of things that would make sense to do like cleaning or parts to replace like sensors?

Things I've tested thoroughly and am continuing to test for being faulty:

• Throttle cable and housing (Ive turned all sorts of ways, straightened cable, greased cable, etc.)
• Throttle pulley (pulls smoothly)
• Vacuum leak (hooked up gauge, sprayed carb cleaner everywhere near intake manifold areas and hoses listening for idle changes but no changes when spraying)
• MAP sensor (cleaned only and reinstalled)

What next should I rule out?

ezone

My guess was a flaky actuator, but maybe grab another control unit.


Also, I thought there was some question about the placement of the vent line or what it connected to?? so look at that closer while you are there.

WaryDriver

Jerky cruise mystery is solved, set cruise is smooth. The arm bolted to the center of the throttle pulley has two holes. When I had the cruise cable bolted on the lower hole, and I'd kept the same height as the gas pedal cable, it would jerk since servo pulls the throttle more rotation when lower. When bolted on the upper hole the cruise is smooth because the servo cable pulling causes less rotation of the arm and pulley. Also, it made even smoother when the cruise cable was moved higher than the gas pedal cable, and in line with the upper hole not angled upwards. See my diagram below, red is where it was jerky and moved to green position.

Thanks for your help w/ cruise, ezone.

ezone

Well that's certainly an interesting solution, I'm glad you figured it out