ezone

Blue wrench.

MechMan

Can i remove the head without taking the egr valve off? One bot is rounded and I can't get anything on it because a pipe is in the way

ezone

.Yes

MechMan

I finally got that off now I'm trying to takle the intake. How do I get those bolts under the manifold or should I pull the intake out attached to the head?

ezone

Some find it easier to leave the intake attached to the head.

If you really want to separate it from the head in the car, not all of the fasteners need to be removed. Study a parts diagram to determine which studs originate in the injector plate instead of the cylinder head. (the plate stays attached to the manifold)

Don't forget there are 3 small fasteners holding the bottom of the manifold that you must get under the car to find.

MechMan

Anyone know which nuts or bots have to come off to separate the intake from the head? The diagram I am looking at isn't very clear. Is it the three nuts underneath and the two bolt on the side?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

You talking intake manifold or intake itself? Forgive me if you mentioned it already, I'm feeling particularly lazy right now and didn't feel like scrolling through the thread.

Got some diagrams for you.

Resonator chamber



Air filter box


Intake manifold

MechMan

The intake manifold i want to disconnect from the head. I think I figured out that the only nut that has to be removed underneath is the one right in the middle.I am trying to not remove the manifold from the car if I can and want to keep the injector base attached to the intake. another question I ca only find one of the injector rail rubber spacer. I ca't remeber if there should be another.

ezone

In the injector plate the two studs at the bottom (#24) keep the plate attached to the manifold, leave the nuts attached to them.
The rest have to be removed.

Or look at the intake gasket holes to see which ones go all the way through to the head

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

don't those studs go through the flange on the IM? I thought they did.. It has been a few years since I've had to tinker around there. I just remember it being a huge pain in the ***, and only being able to turn that bottom center nut one flat at a time with a box end wrench

ezone

Two studs and nuts secure the injector plate and manifold together.

I know it's easy to say it, but often when I actually get to do a head gasket on one of these I forget this and take them apart anyway......then cuss myself a little because I should know better.

The center nut......if you remove that one first, it may spin off with your fingers after loosening it.

Civic4me

Why do you need to remove intake? Head comes off just fine with intake attached to it.

MechMan

Part 6 on the digram above. Is there supposed to be 2 of them?

MechMan

I am trying to keep the intake manifold in place and just remove the head if possible.

Civic4me

Did you mean "remove head with intake attached to it" ? Yes, it is possible, in fact a lot easier than removing intake first.

MechMan

No, I was hoping to keep the intake in the car if at all possible.

Civic4me

I dont think it is possible, and it wont make any sense, like changing brake pads while the wheel still attached to the car. It will be very hard to perform. Just take head off together with intake, mark every wire with different color markers, if you worry about connecting everything back.

ezone

Correct, quantity 2
I leave the intake in the car when I pull the head. My preference most of the time.

If it is equipped with EGR, the time is right to clean out the distribution channels in the injector plate

Civic4me

Well, everyone has own preference I guess. I prefer to take head out with intake, take it apart on the table, then clean everything properly. Takes less time actually.

Colin42

ezone is a honda tech, he is in the business of doing things properly and quickly without sacrificing quality

Wakko

Well, I'll be doing a HG. I hadn't touched my girlfriend's son's car until the other day, and we did the exhaust gas/coolant test, and the fluid turned green. After verifying that the coolant level was full, we drove it to my house on the highway, and it boiled over, despite the coolant gauge reading at about half. I just had a baby, and am in the middle of moving, so the last thing I have time for is a HG in this car, but they can't afford to have it fixed (nor is it worth putting $1500 into a $2500 car), so I will make the time to do it. My plan is to have the head milled, but NOT do a valve job on it. My basis is from the Honda mechanic saying that we don't know if the overheating damaged anything on the lower end, and if we do fresh valves, it could exacerbate any bottom end issues. Car has 113k miles. Should we be worried about a toasted lower end? I don't want to do this HG job only to have the bottom end cut loose a couple months down the line.

How long should I plan on this job taking me to complete? I've done American V6/V8 heads, but never Honda.

Wankenstein

Do a dry and wet (teaspoon of oil) compression test before HG repair.
If compression in all cylinders is good and engine is not burning oil then bottom end should be okay.
If compression is low in one cylinder during dry compression test a wet compression will isolate bad compression rings if compression rises significantly after adding oil.
If there is compression loss in two adjacent cylinders then most likely there is a head gasket breech at the loctaion between the two offending cylinders.
A leakdown test will tell you ahead of time if and where compression is lost. Would also confirm a headgasket leak via bubbles in coolant system.

If you bring it to a machinist to mill the head he should check for head cracks and leaking valves as well. If it has a leak in intake and/or exhaust valves it's best to get a valve lapp and valves cleaned/polished while the head is off. Good time to put new valve seals in too. Use OEM parts..HondaPartsNow is one online OEM source.

ezone

So it didn't really boil over, more like fluid was pushed out of the radiator until the reservoir barfed all over the place?


Have it measured for flatness first. Don't have it resurfaced unless it's proven to be necessary. $$$
Not likely unless it's been leaking so bad that antifreeze has entered the oil, or it's been hydrolocked.
If it's got lower end noise (knocking) already, don't waste your time. If no noise, then continue with the plan.



Sounds like someone has no clue what really goes on inside an engine.
I've heard this throughout my career, mostly by mechanics I wouldn't let tie my shoes.

Do I need to elaborate?
Let me get my crystal ball warmed up....


Biggest thing is gonna be doing the job right, keeping debris out, and making sure all traces of antifreeze are removed from the oil pan.

I'm not aware of any engine that failed shortly after *I* did a head gasket job, but I've been witness to catastrophic failures caused by poor workmanship and improper procedures.


If you aren't a first timer but not a pro, probably plan around a day of working time, plus time for the machine shop if necessary.
Alldata says a little over a half day for just a head gasket job by itself.

Wakko

The first time the car overheated, it was definitely hot, but it was also low on coolant. This time around, the temperature gauge never read hot, but the car went into limp mode, so we pulled over and it was spittin' mad. I assumed that because it boiled over that it had overheated, but in hindsight I think you're correct. When I opened the overflow, the pressure blew hot coolant out. After letting the car sit for a while, and running the heater just to be safe, it stayed in limp mode, but otherwise seemed to run fine.

No antifreeze in the oil, knocking or indications of problems besides the HG issues already listed. Good idea on the checking of the head...I assumed that it would be warped. When YOU do HGs, what do you use to clean the top of the block? I've seen a few suggestions but prefer a pro-suggestion. Is your practice of leaving the intake manifold in the car something a rookie would have no problem doing, or is it easier to take the entire assembly out?

Wakko

12mm or 14mm?

ezone

And the head.

Single edge razor blade and carb/throttle body spray cleaner, and a shop towel. Nothing else. You're really only going to scrape off the paint-like residue from the gasket, and there's almost nothing there. It WILL leave some color on the surface, don't worry about it.
It doesn't have to be pretty and bright and shiny, it must be absolutely FLAT.

Preserving the original machined ultra smooth finish on both the block and cylinder head is paramount to a good gasket seal. If the head is machined, the surface must be extremely smooth like the original. If it looks like they took a belt sander to it, your shop sucks and you run the risk of leaks that can't be sealed.



I can't answer that. It's just my personal preference to do it the way I do.
The stock engine does not use head studs. It uses regular 6pt bolts.

Wakko

Ok, in Riceboy's thread it mentioned studs, which threw me for a loop. I will add new head bolts to the list of parts. 90005PM3003 is the number I found. So far, up to $443 in parts...sigh.

ezone

Post your list, let's see if we can pare it down a bit LOL


Head bolts are normal bolts, no need to replace unless damaged. Reuse them.

Wakko

Reusing the bolts will save me $60 right there. I've still not added the oil pan gasket and oil pump seal (or anything else related to that repair). I'd like to replace any seals thare are common sense units while I'm here.




GASKET KIT, CYLINDER HEAD
Part Number: 06110-PLD-010
$182.27


BELT, TIMING (104RU22 GB-333)
Part Number: 14400-PMM-A02
$24.14

TENSIONER SET, TIMING BELT
Part Number: 04145-PLC-315
$71.83

WATER PUMP
Part Number: 19200-PLM-A01
$70.44


KEY (4.5X11.0)
Part Number: 90704-634-000
$3.26


OIL SEAL (29X45X8) (ARAI)
Part Number: 91213-P2F-A01
$4.61


RUBBER, L. BACK SEAL
Part Number: 11833-PLM-000
$4.61


RUBBER, R. BACK SEAL
Part Number: 11832-PLM-000
$5.47


PLUG, CYLINDER HEAD
Part Number: 12513-P72-003
$7.67


BOLT A, TENSIONER
Part Number: 14517-PLC-013
$4.02

BOLT-WASHER (10X140) (SAGA)
Part Number: 90005-PM3-003
$6.51 x 10 $65.10

ezone

If you are not planning on a valve job, skip the kit and just get individual gaskets as needed. Browse Riceboys head gasket thread?.

I could probably do the job with less than his shopping list if I really had to cut corners LOL


Not critical. Are they badly damaged or missing?



I see the cam seal listed (it would have been included with the kit) but no front crank seal for the oil pump.
If you want to reseal the oil pump because it's leaking between the pump body and block (single O ring, must remove pump to replace) , the time to do it is while its all apart and the pan is off. At only 113k I wouldn't expect profuse leaking from that spot yet, but it's possible.
Same for the crank seal, at that low mileage I wouldn't expect leaks yet but it's possible.

Aluminum pan (D17A2, VTEC) is sealed with Hondabond RTV.
Are you pulling the pan off for a reason? Does it need to come off?

If VTEC equipped (you said it's an EX?), you may want to reseal the VTEC solenoid and valve now to avoid oil leaks. I have part numbers not in the catalogs, or search here for posts with both gasket numbers..

Car is to be driven by a 16yo kid, yes? How long is the car expected to last, realistically? Will it be totaled within 30k miles, or sold off for a different car?