jwall1689

Okay need some extreme diagnosing skills....bear with me as I describe. About a month ago I started experiencing a hard start when I would get in my 2001 Honda Civic lx each morning. However when I would start it in the afternoon it would start up right away. I finally realized that after about 5hrs of sitting it would have a hard start. I changed my fuel pump and instantly it started after sitting for hours. It did not experience a hard start the next day, but by the 2nd day we were back where we started so I thought it could be a clogged fuel filter, no luck. Then changed plugs, no luck. Then after a really cold morning it wouldn't start at all. Thought it might be ignition relay, no luck. We finally got it started again after priming it with gas and once it runs for a bit it starts up no problem so all in all we believe it to be a fuel system problem but out of ideas for diagnosing? Any thoughts or help?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

By hard start, does it crank a lot before it actually fires, or is it more of a labored crank before firing?

jwall1689

It cranks a lot before firing.

RIPSAW

How many miles? Is the ignition relay the fuel pump relay? Do you hear the 2 second timer kick the fuel pump on when you first key on?

jwall1689

Ignition relay and fuel pump relay are two different ones on this car. Yes I can hear the fuel pump kick on for the 2 seconds and it has 198,000 miles. Also the Cam sensor has been replaced too.

RIPSAW

I would replace the fuelpump relay.

jwall1689

OK I got the part ordered and I'll install it tomorrow and see if it works.

jwall1689

Changed it and still didn't help. It also seems to have more trouble starting based off of temperature. When we had it in the shop where it's warm it started up pretty easily and when it's been outside in the cold it definitely is tougher.

RIPSAW

Sorry. Guess it's still fuel since you said it started way up post one and cold when primed . Guess it does not no it's cold and needs more fuel to start. Maybe the temperature switch. What thru me is your statement above ''I changed my fuel pump and instantly it started after sitting for hours." I was still thinking it was an actual random problem in the fuel system and a relay that was in bad shape maybe could do that.
I know ezone is laughing his butt off at me now . Be real careful here. There may be more then one of these temperature switch sensors that control different functions. They are two on my Tacoma... You may be able to check them with a resistance meter and a controlled rise of hot water with a thermostat in it.

jwall1689

I just ordered a new ECT sensor today so I'll install it and see if that fixes it. I saw a guy who had a 97 civic had the same problem and he said that fixed it, I'll let you know tonight if it works.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

just a quick check, no CEL?

ezone

Got codes?
Got a scanner?
Got the ability to read live operating data from the PCM? (this could verify if the ECT is truthful or not)

RIPSAW

Come on..that's cheating! .... We are rebuilding a Honda hopefully with OEM replacement part....

ezone

Damn, you caught me. I'll go stand with my nose in the corner.

AutoZone: Turning your Honda into a Daewoo one part at a time.

jwall1689

Well put in the ECT sensor and it did start but it's still a bit of a hard start, but it gets going? Chances it might be the fuel injectors?

jwall1689

Checked today, no codes.

RIPSAW

Have you checked the compression with a good battery and the throttle to the floor?

(Hey ezone, never thought about it but how do you get the newer throttle by wire system throttle bodies open to check compression? Or do you just check the leak down?

ezone

Why would I ever need to check compression or anything? Hondas don't ever break!

Compression comes before leakdown when chasing a compression problem. How else are you gonna know you have a compression problem you need to chase?

So far on the (fly by wire) units I've actually needed to check, the throttle has been active without the engine running.
Key on, stab the gas pedal, throttle blade opens.

jwall1689

I have not checked compression, but it was another cold morning and another hard start. When the temp outside gets below 60 it's definitely affecting it.

RIPSAW

When it is running, is it plenty fast and still strong? Compression is probably not it. Use any oil? Usually when a car looses compression, there are other signs. Hard plump a small pipe to the air filter and hook a can of ether to it with a push button. Label that button Choke. Or even better, drop it off a ezone's place.

jwall1689

Runs good and fast, literally no issues once it finally starts and engine gets going.

ezone

The shop. I don't do side work.

Bring buckets of money.

Aaron Martin

HELP I have this same problem... what was the fix?
please and thanks!

QUOTE=jwall1689;4717350]Okay need some extreme diagnosing skills....bear with me as I describe. About a month ago I started experiencing a hard start when I would get in my 2001 Honda Civic lx each morning. However when I would start it in the afternoon it would start up right away. I finally realized that after about 5hrs of sitting it would have a hard start. I changed my fuel pump and instantly it started after sitting for hours. It did not experience a hard start the next day, but by the 2nd day we were back where we started so I thought it could be a clogged fuel filter, no luck. Then changed plugs, no luck. Then after a really cold morning it wouldn't start at all. Thought it might be ignition relay, no luck. We finally got it started again after priming it with gas and once it runs for a bit it starts up no problem so all in all we believe it to be a fuel system problem but out of ideas for diagnosing? Any thoughts or help?[/QUOTE]

Slumpertcivic

Based on the last post, I would assume the fix was “Buckets of Money”.

Previous poster replaced fuel pump, relays, coolant sensor ect.

You should start with Live Data OBI tool. Knowing what the ECU “thinks” is going on when your trying to start is the secret to maybe getting that down to a single bucket.

Aaron Martin

Thanks don’t have one of those tools was just wondering what the original poster findings were?

Based on the last post, I would assume the fix was “Buckets of Money”.

Previous poster replaced fuel pump, relays, coolant sensor ect.

You should start with Live Data OBI tool. Knowing what the ECU “thinks” is going on when your trying to start is the secret to maybe getting that down to a single bucket.[/QUOTE]

sinkenken

I had a problem from brand new 7th Gen car with 1.7 motor.
After running for a while and stopping engine, say for gas it would crank but was hard to start.
Last year on really hot days the engine would just stop intermittently for no reason and after about 10 minutes I could start it normally again.
Eventually found the problem was the TDC Sensor failing with heat soak at garage or during really hot weather (>38deg C)
Old sensor had J5T23991 2509 PLC written on it.
I replaced it with 37840RJH006 Sensor from Honda which Supercedes J5T23991 2509 PLC
It was showing Fault Code P1361 when it was failed and hot.
Hope this helps.