New EX owners
12-08-2016
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New EX owners
Hey everybody -
We are new owners of an '05 Civic Sedan EX. We began looking a few weeks ago for a cheap commuter car for my wife, who is a nurse and has accepted a new job farther from home, to keep the miles off of her BMW X3. We searched high and low and looked at several. I began researching the models since we are new to the world of Honda. We found this at a local Honda dealership that was just traded in a week prior on a new Civic. It was purchased and serviced here at this dealership in Waco, TX. It was owned by an 82 year old lady and has 103k miles. The car is super clean inside and out, never smoked in and the body is superb. We looked at it on Friday, 12/2 and purchased it on the spot, for the final price of $5300. I think we got a good deal after searching Craigslist and local FS ads; many that we looked at had a pile of miles and still wanted what we bought ours for.
There were a couple of small issues that were taken care of by the dealership, and they made us happy. The reverse lights didn't work, but they did when the trunk opened. Come to find out there was a short in the harness on the right side of the trunk hinge. I asked the tech to show me where it was in case it ever happened again and he showed me and said he soldered the repair and used heat shrink on the wires. Exactly what I would have done. Hopefully, it shouldn't happen again.
My wife noticed the passenger doors aren't actuating with the lock switch or the key fob. I asked them to check it out, just in case it was a harness issue, but it wasn't. After researching more, this may be a more common issue with the actuators themselves, right? I plan on diving into this more and will update with findings.
Driving it home from the dealership today I noticed a miss under acceleration and a couple seconds later the CEL began to flash. Having experience with this, I immediately thought it was a misfire. So I called the dealership and spoke with someone and he said unless the CEL was illuminated there wasn't much he could do. I know better, so I scanned it and there is P0303 pending, I did not clear it. It also did this under light load on the highway at speeds in overdrive. Could this be plugs? My 06 F150 did exactly this and it was the plugs.
I tried to obtain the service records, but due to privacy they couldn't provide me with them. I said hell just white out the name of the owner, whom I already knew who it was. I spoke with her about the car. She said it was a great car with minimal issues at most and that we'd be very happy with the car. From what I understand, these are interference engines and I also know from experience that timing belt maintenance is paramount to a healthy, long lasting engine. I will most likely DIY, but wanted some opinions here too.
These forums provide invaluable knowledge, experience and advice. I'm on a BMW forum for my E46, and a member of a couple more for my car. I have to say, I know my E46 chassis very well, know its weaknesses and do all my own maintenance. There's always something to be learned and I'm excited to learn from all the Honda experts out there on our new adventure!
Edit: The last 7 of the VIN are H511426 for anyone curious or can educate me more on the car / chassis / engine, etc. I'm here to learn!
We are new owners of an '05 Civic Sedan EX. We began looking a few weeks ago for a cheap commuter car for my wife, who is a nurse and has accepted a new job farther from home, to keep the miles off of her BMW X3. We searched high and low and looked at several. I began researching the models since we are new to the world of Honda. We found this at a local Honda dealership that was just traded in a week prior on a new Civic. It was purchased and serviced here at this dealership in Waco, TX. It was owned by an 82 year old lady and has 103k miles. The car is super clean inside and out, never smoked in and the body is superb. We looked at it on Friday, 12/2 and purchased it on the spot, for the final price of $5300. I think we got a good deal after searching Craigslist and local FS ads; many that we looked at had a pile of miles and still wanted what we bought ours for.
There were a couple of small issues that were taken care of by the dealership, and they made us happy. The reverse lights didn't work, but they did when the trunk opened. Come to find out there was a short in the harness on the right side of the trunk hinge. I asked the tech to show me where it was in case it ever happened again and he showed me and said he soldered the repair and used heat shrink on the wires. Exactly what I would have done. Hopefully, it shouldn't happen again.
My wife noticed the passenger doors aren't actuating with the lock switch or the key fob. I asked them to check it out, just in case it was a harness issue, but it wasn't. After researching more, this may be a more common issue with the actuators themselves, right? I plan on diving into this more and will update with findings.
Driving it home from the dealership today I noticed a miss under acceleration and a couple seconds later the CEL began to flash. Having experience with this, I immediately thought it was a misfire. So I called the dealership and spoke with someone and he said unless the CEL was illuminated there wasn't much he could do. I know better, so I scanned it and there is P0303 pending, I did not clear it. It also did this under light load on the highway at speeds in overdrive. Could this be plugs? My 06 F150 did exactly this and it was the plugs.
I tried to obtain the service records, but due to privacy they couldn't provide me with them. I said hell just white out the name of the owner, whom I already knew who it was. I spoke with her about the car. She said it was a great car with minimal issues at most and that we'd be very happy with the car. From what I understand, these are interference engines and I also know from experience that timing belt maintenance is paramount to a healthy, long lasting engine. I will most likely DIY, but wanted some opinions here too.
These forums provide invaluable knowledge, experience and advice. I'm on a BMW forum for my E46, and a member of a couple more for my car. I have to say, I know my E46 chassis very well, know its weaknesses and do all my own maintenance. There's always something to be learned and I'm excited to learn from all the Honda experts out there on our new adventure!
Edit: The last 7 of the VIN are H511426 for anyone curious or can educate me more on the car / chassis / engine, etc. I'm here to learn!
Last edited by Phillips0417; 12-08-2016 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Add VIN
12-08-2016
#2
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
Misfire under load, or was it a miss while driving at a steady speed?
Will it miss if you power brake it?
If so, start with the usual suspects on #3, if not visually obvious then swap the plug to another cylinder (maybe between 2 and 3) and swap the coil to a different cylinder (maybe between 3 and 4), then check again to see what cyl the miss shows up in.
If it was only missing during (mostly) steady speed cruise and runs without missing during harder acceleration:
unplug the EGR valve, drive it around for a while and see if the miss is gone. Clogged EGR ports may be an issue at higher mileage, seems to be worse if someone uses mostly lower quality fuel.
Lock motors are common: If there is any movement of the lock **** at all (or noise), the motor is weak --- but if there is zero movement, I'd unplug and check power/ground in the doors before ordering.
Will it miss if you power brake it?
If so, start with the usual suspects on #3, if not visually obvious then swap the plug to another cylinder (maybe between 2 and 3) and swap the coil to a different cylinder (maybe between 3 and 4), then check again to see what cyl the miss shows up in.
If it was only missing during (mostly) steady speed cruise and runs without missing during harder acceleration:
unplug the EGR valve, drive it around for a while and see if the miss is gone. Clogged EGR ports may be an issue at higher mileage, seems to be worse if someone uses mostly lower quality fuel.
Lock motors are common: If there is any movement of the lock **** at all (or noise), the motor is weak --- but if there is zero movement, I'd unplug and check power/ground in the doors before ordering.
12-09-2016
#3
Registered!!
Re: New EX owners
"My wife noticed the passenger doors aren't actuating with the lock switch or the key fob. I asked them to check it out, just in case it was a harness issue, but it wasn't. After researching more, this may be a more common issue with the actuators themselves, right? I plan on diving into this more and will update with findings."
One push of the unlock button on the FOB unlocks the driver's door ONLY. A second push of the unlock button unlocks the rest of the doors. Just in case you didn't know that.
It's time for new plugs anyway if not replaced by the dealer. Use OEM NGK plugs for best results on this engine.
You can check for a bad ignition coil by unplugging each coil individually while at idle and the one that doesn't make a difference in engine idling is a dud.
Time for the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, crank and cam seals, accessory belts, thermostat and coolant. Too bad the dealer didn't throw this maintenance in with the sale.
These are great little cars but the only major annoyances I have had to deal with are a leaking head gasket and bad alternator which appear to be common according to the boards online.
One push of the unlock button on the FOB unlocks the driver's door ONLY. A second push of the unlock button unlocks the rest of the doors. Just in case you didn't know that.
It's time for new plugs anyway if not replaced by the dealer. Use OEM NGK plugs for best results on this engine.
You can check for a bad ignition coil by unplugging each coil individually while at idle and the one that doesn't make a difference in engine idling is a dud.
Time for the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, crank and cam seals, accessory belts, thermostat and coolant. Too bad the dealer didn't throw this maintenance in with the sale.
These are great little cars but the only major annoyances I have had to deal with are a leaking head gasket and bad alternator which appear to be common according to the boards online.
12-09-2016
#4
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
You can check for a bad ignition coil by unplugging each coil individually while at idle and the one that doesn't make a difference in engine idling is a dud.
Carry on!
12-10-2016
#5
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Misfire under load, or was it a miss while driving at a steady speed? Yes, to both. I noticed it at first under load while trying to accelerate out onto the highway. It's near a local mall so holiday traffic is high. Then the check engine light began to flash. Also felt a noticeable miss while driving at highway speed, but wasn't constant. Sometimes it would straighten out and others I could feel it.
Will it miss if you power brake it? Haven't tried yet, been working too much and finally have a weekend off so I'll be able to do a bit more troubleshooting.
If so, start with the usual suspects on #3, if not visually obvious then swap the plug to another cylinder (maybe between 2 and 3) and swap the coil to a different cylinder (maybe between 3 and 4), then check again to see what cyl the miss shows up in. Already had this in mind, days are so short this time of year so it's dark when I get home. I will most likely begin with new plugs, and potentially coils.
If it was only missing during (mostly) steady speed cruise and runs without missing during harder acceleration:
unplug the EGR valve, drive it around for a while and see if the miss is gone. Clogged EGR ports may be an issue at higher mileage, seems to be worse if someone uses mostly lower quality fuel. I'll try this as well, thank you. Wasn't aware of an EGR valve on these cars.
Lock motors are common: If there is any movement of the lock **** at all (or noise), the motor is weak --- but if there is zero movement, I'd unplug and check power/ground in the doors before ordering. The tabs on the door definitely move, just some very slightly or slowly, almost as to signify a faulty actuator.
Will it miss if you power brake it? Haven't tried yet, been working too much and finally have a weekend off so I'll be able to do a bit more troubleshooting.
If so, start with the usual suspects on #3, if not visually obvious then swap the plug to another cylinder (maybe between 2 and 3) and swap the coil to a different cylinder (maybe between 3 and 4), then check again to see what cyl the miss shows up in. Already had this in mind, days are so short this time of year so it's dark when I get home. I will most likely begin with new plugs, and potentially coils.
If it was only missing during (mostly) steady speed cruise and runs without missing during harder acceleration:
unplug the EGR valve, drive it around for a while and see if the miss is gone. Clogged EGR ports may be an issue at higher mileage, seems to be worse if someone uses mostly lower quality fuel. I'll try this as well, thank you. Wasn't aware of an EGR valve on these cars.
Lock motors are common: If there is any movement of the lock **** at all (or noise), the motor is weak --- but if there is zero movement, I'd unplug and check power/ground in the doors before ordering. The tabs on the door definitely move, just some very slightly or slowly, almost as to signify a faulty actuator.
One push of the unlock button on the FOB unlocks the driver's door ONLY. A second push of the unlock button unlocks the rest of the doors. Just in case you didn't know that. I did know this, but thank you.
It's time for new plugs anyway if not replaced by the dealer. Use OEM NGK plugs for best results on this engine. That's what I was thinking as well. The service rep did say a single plug was replaced before, but didn't say which cylinder..
Don't know why one would replace only one, but maybe that's just me. I use NGK plugs on my BMW's as well, good plugs.
You can check for a bad ignition coil by unplugging each coil individually while at idle and the one that doesn't make a difference in engine idling is a dud.
Time for the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, crank and cam seals, accessory belts, thermostat and coolant. Too bad the dealer didn't throw this maintenance in with the sale. Yep, the more I read, the more I think I should do this. I don't know if this has been done already or not, I can't obtain the service records yet, but I'm still working on this. If it hasn't, I'll likely be doing this myself. I just need to know where to get the parts because the dealership is likely going to be high if I purchase there. For my BMW I use realoem.com and input the last 7 of my VIN, is there a site like this for our cars?
These are great little cars but the only major annoyances I have had to deal with are a leaking head gasket and bad alternator which appear to be common according to the boards online. Well, we did get a small 24k mile warranty with the car, it was only $1k so we went for it not knowing this platform and what to expect. Thank you for your input!
It's time for new plugs anyway if not replaced by the dealer. Use OEM NGK plugs for best results on this engine. That's what I was thinking as well. The service rep did say a single plug was replaced before, but didn't say which cylinder..
Don't know why one would replace only one, but maybe that's just me. I use NGK plugs on my BMW's as well, good plugs. You can check for a bad ignition coil by unplugging each coil individually while at idle and the one that doesn't make a difference in engine idling is a dud.
Time for the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, crank and cam seals, accessory belts, thermostat and coolant. Too bad the dealer didn't throw this maintenance in with the sale. Yep, the more I read, the more I think I should do this. I don't know if this has been done already or not, I can't obtain the service records yet, but I'm still working on this. If it hasn't, I'll likely be doing this myself. I just need to know where to get the parts because the dealership is likely going to be high if I purchase there. For my BMW I use realoem.com and input the last 7 of my VIN, is there a site like this for our cars?
These are great little cars but the only major annoyances I have had to deal with are a leaking head gasket and bad alternator which appear to be common according to the boards online. Well, we did get a small 24k mile warranty with the car, it was only $1k so we went for it not knowing this platform and what to expect. Thank you for your input!
12-10-2016
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
12-10-2016
#7
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
Copied the reply found in my email:
NOTE: Colors seem to be broken right now. Looks like everything highlighted just disappears.
---Quote (Originally by ezone)---
Misfire under load, or was it a miss while driving at a steady speed? Yes, to both. I noticed it at first under load while trying to accelerate out onto the highway. It's near a local mall so holiday traffic is high. Then the check engine light began to flash. Also felt a noticeable miss while driving at highway speed, but wasn't constant. Sometimes it would straighten out and others I could feel it.
Will it miss if you power brake it? Haven't tried yet, been working too much and finally have a weekend off so I'll be able to do a bit more troubleshooting.
If so, start with the usual suspects on #3, if not visually obvious then swap the plug to another cylinder (maybe between 2 and 3) and swap the coil to a different cylinder (maybe between 3 and 4), then check again to see what cyl the miss shows up in. Already had this in mind, days are so short this time of year so it's dark when I get home. I will most likely begin with new plugs, and potentially coils.
If it was only missing during (mostly) steady speed cruise and runs without missing during harder acceleration:
unplug the EGR valve, drive it around for a while and see if the miss is gone. Clogged EGR ports may be an issue at higher mileage, seems to be worse if someone uses mostly lower quality fuel. I'll try this as well, thank you. Wasn't aware of an EGR valve on these cars.
Lock motors are common: If there is any movement of the lock **** at all (or noise), the motor is weak --- but if there is _zero_ movement, I'd unplug and check power/ground in the doors before ordering.
---End Quote---
The tabs on the door definitely move, just some very slightly or slowly, almost as to signify a faulty actuator.
---Quote (Originally by NDNV)---
One push of the unlock button on the FOB unlocks the driver's door ONLY. A second push of the unlock button unlocks the rest of the doors. Just in case you didn't know that. I did know this, but thank you.
It's time for new plugs anyway if not replaced by the dealer. Use OEM NGK plugs for best results on this engine. That's what I was thinking as well. The service rep did say a single plug was replaced before, but didn't say which cylinder.. Don't know why one would replace only one, but maybe that's just me. I use NGK plugs on my BMW's as well, good plugs.
You can check for a bad ignition coil by unplugging each coil individually while at idle and the one that doesn't make a difference in engine idling is a dud.
Time for the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, crank and cam seals, accessory belts, thermostat and coolant. Too bad the dealer didn't throw this maintenance in with the sale. Yep, the more I read, the more I think I should do this. I don't know if this has been done already or not, I can't obtain the service records yet, but I'm still working on this. If it hasn't, I'll likely be doing this myself. I just need to know where to get the parts because the dealership is likely going to be high if I purchase there. For my BMW I use realoem.com and input the last 7 of my VIN, is there a site like this for our cars?
These are great little cars but the only major annoyances I have had to deal with are a leaking head gasket and bad alternator which appear to be common according to the boards online. Well, we did get a small 24k mile warranty with the car, it was only $1k so we went for it not knowing this platform and what to expect. Thank you for your input!
---End Quote---
Answers in *RED* above.
***************
Misfire under load, or was it a miss while driving at a steady speed? Yes, to both. I noticed it at first under load while trying to accelerate out onto the highway. It's near a local mall so holiday traffic is high. Then the check engine light began to flash. Also felt a noticeable miss while driving at highway speed, but wasn't constant. Sometimes it would straighten out and others I could feel it.
Will it miss if you power brake it? Haven't tried yet, been working too much and finally have a weekend off so I'll be able to do a bit more troubleshooting.
If so, start with the usual suspects on #3, if not visually obvious then swap the plug to another cylinder (maybe between 2 and 3) and swap the coil to a different cylinder (maybe between 3 and 4), then check again to see what cyl the miss shows up in. Already had this in mind, days are so short this time of year so it's dark when I get home. I will most likely begin with new plugs, and potentially coils.
If it was only missing during (mostly) steady speed cruise and runs without missing during harder acceleration:
unplug the EGR valve, drive it around for a while and see if the miss is gone. Clogged EGR ports may be an issue at higher mileage, seems to be worse if someone uses mostly lower quality fuel. I'll try this as well, thank you. Wasn't aware of an EGR valve on these cars.
Lock motors are common: If there is any movement of the lock **** at all (or noise), the motor is weak --- but if there is _zero_ movement, I'd unplug and check power/ground in the doors before ordering.
---End Quote---
The tabs on the door definitely move, just some very slightly or slowly, almost as to signify a faulty actuator.
---Quote (Originally by NDNV)---
One push of the unlock button on the FOB unlocks the driver's door ONLY. A second push of the unlock button unlocks the rest of the doors. Just in case you didn't know that. I did know this, but thank you.
It's time for new plugs anyway if not replaced by the dealer. Use OEM NGK plugs for best results on this engine. That's what I was thinking as well. The service rep did say a single plug was replaced before, but didn't say which cylinder..
Don't know why one would replace only one, but maybe that's just me. I use NGK plugs on my BMW's as well, good plugs.You can check for a bad ignition coil by unplugging each coil individually while at idle and the one that doesn't make a difference in engine idling is a dud.
Time for the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, crank and cam seals, accessory belts, thermostat and coolant. Too bad the dealer didn't throw this maintenance in with the sale. Yep, the more I read, the more I think I should do this. I don't know if this has been done already or not, I can't obtain the service records yet, but I'm still working on this. If it hasn't, I'll likely be doing this myself. I just need to know where to get the parts because the dealership is likely going to be high if I purchase there. For my BMW I use realoem.com and input the last 7 of my VIN, is there a site like this for our cars?
These are great little cars but the only major annoyances I have had to deal with are a leaking head gasket and bad alternator which appear to be common according to the boards online. Well, we did get a small 24k mile warranty with the car, it was only $1k so we went for it not knowing this platform and what to expect. Thank you for your input!
---End Quote---
Answers in *RED* above.
***************
12-10-2016
#9
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
I will most likely begin with new plugs, and potentially coils.
Wasn't aware of an EGR valve on these cars.
The service rep did say a single plug was replaced before, but didn't say which cylinder..
Don't know why one would replace only one,
Maybe because the correct plugs (NGK or DENSO) are probably over $20 each at the dealer,........or maybe the person working on the car is just a parts replacer, or maybe the rep didn't actually know what really happened in the shop either.
Inspect plugs while you do your work. Look for an obviously new plug. Check all of them for evidence of oil fouling, light colored ashy buildup (long term slow oil burning), look for any black carbon track etched/burned into the upper porcelain. This ruins the plug AND the coil, and if both affected parts are not replaced at the same time, one will ruin the other in a very short time.
I just need to know where to get the parts because the dealership is likely going to be high if I purchase there.
Some dealer parts departments use their own price markup scheme.....they may come down to MSRP if you already know what the real price should be bargain with them..... Others may even match online prices. IDK, see what you can get.
(I sure would think that most would rather sell something and make a little money than lose the sale altogether.....but I am sure some managers have figured out how to retire off of percentages instead of real money.)
I started by googling some term like 'honda parts catalog'
Here's a few to look for/compare prices:
hondapartsnow
hondapartscheap
bill kay honda parts
bernardi honda parts
hondaautomotiveparts (Majestic Honda, I used to use them for hotlinking pictures here all the time)
One of Hondas official sites is http://estore.honda.com/ (has Acura catalog and accessories too) the catalog is decent but it gives strictly MSRP, no mention of other dealers that sell at lower prices.
and input the last 7 of my VIN, is there a site like this for our cars?
Lastly, check your VIN for recalls that need completed ASAP: recalls.honda.com
12-15-2016
#10
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I spoke with the service advisor about the situation and I asked him to speak with his service manager about the misfire and also spoke with him that they needed to rectify this. I was very nice, we talked for about 10 minutes. I told him I'm not trying to get over on anyone, we have only owned the car for a week and have put less than 100 miles on it, and we don't need a loaner since this is a spare car and we have others. I just wanted this to be fixed, I was even willing to pay up to half of the repair bill. He called back the next day and asked us to drop it off, which we did that night, Tuesday. He called this morning and said he couldn't replicate the problem and couldn't find a code. I explained again the conditions of when we felt the misfire and subsequent flashing CEL, and also that I scanned it before taking it up there and found P0303. How can my OBDII interface see it but their "factory" scanners cannot? I called BS and got a little more stern with him and let him know there was definitely a code and if I needed to come replicate the problem I would.
Turning into a headache.. I don't want this to deter me or my wife from Honda.
Turning into a headache.. I don't want this to deter me or my wife from Honda.
12-15-2016
#11
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
Did you erase the fault code before taking it to the shop?
Was the CEL still on when you dropped it off?
Does your code reader give freeze frame data?
This HAS happened to me more than once.
Immediately after getting it to act up: flashing light and all, code not found after the flashing stopped........ but I don't remember which cars it's happened to me with.
Not all mechanics are good at diagnosing accurately. Some are good at guessing and replacing many parts.
If you would like to drive about 1000 miles, I'd be happy to check out the car.
Was the CEL still on when you dropped it off?
Does your code reader give freeze frame data?
He called this morning and said he couldn't replicate the problem and couldn't find a code.
Immediately after getting it to act up: flashing light and all, code not found after the flashing stopped........ but I don't remember which cars it's happened to me with.
Turning into a headache.
If you would like to drive about 1000 miles, I'd be happy to check out the car.
12-15-2016
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Did you erase the fault code before taking it to the shop?
Was the CEL still on when you dropped it off?
Was the CEL still on when you dropped it off?
Does your code reader give freeze frame data?
Not all mechanics are good at diagnosing accurately. Some are good at guessing and replacing many parts.
If you would like to drive about 1000 miles, I'd be happy to check out the car.
12-16-2016
#13
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
Quote:
Does your code reader give freeze frame data?
Does your code reader give freeze frame data?
Still want to know if the dealer is going to resolve the issues successfully.
12-21-2016
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Well the dealership just called and said they can't find any issues and no codes. So I am going to pick it up this afternoon and first thing I'm going to do is scan it for a code, drive it to get it to misfire then ask the advisor let his shop foreman or tech ride with me while I drive it if it misbehaves.
This is becoming a headache, we love the car. Just very unsatisfied with the dealership. I will be having some words with the GM. Sucks the next closest dealership is about a 45 minute drive away or I'd be going there.
Is there anything else I can do with this? If I can't get anywhere I will be posting freeze frame data.
This is becoming a headache, we love the car. Just very unsatisfied with the dealership. I will be having some words with the GM. Sucks the next closest dealership is about a 45 minute drive away or I'd be going there.
Is there anything else I can do with this? If I can't get anywhere I will be posting freeze frame data.
12-21-2016
#15
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
and first thing I'm going to do is scan it for a code
Make it act up, get the light on, then return but do not shut the engine off, maybe the code will be found that way.
Surely every dealer should have at least one rocket scientist type person in the shop who can actually fix cars on purpose? Ask for that one!
I don't know what to tell you. Going to the GM with your (calmly and rationally explained) complaint gets results here, though the result received isn't always what was desired.
You aren't limited to the dealer shop either, but if they owe you a solved problem nobody else will do it for free.
12-21-2016
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If you knew the status of the I/M readiness monitors when you dropped it off, you could looksee if they have been reset to 'not completed' now. That would tell if they erased stored codes or not.
Make it act up, get the light on, then return but do not shut the engine off, maybe the code will be found that way.
Make it act up, get the light on, then return but do not shut the engine off, maybe the code will be found that way.
When I went to the dealership this afternoon, I was prepared for a fight but I kept my cool and presented my case. I asked to drive the car to get it to misfire and also asked if the tech could ride with me, and the service manager agreed, and the salesman that has been nothing but helpful through this entire thing wanted to ride as well. I scanned it, found no codes and all 8/8 readiness monitors were ready. We loaded up and pulled out of the dealership and because it's a busy access road, I got into it a little and immediately it began to misbehave and the CEL began to flash. The tech saw it and felt it and immediately looked to his computer, took screenshots of the codes and now there were 4! P0300, P0301, P0303 & P0304. The accelerator pedal was at 78%, I can't remember what the engine RPM was, and the speed was 43 MPH. We went around the block and back to the dealership, pulled up to the bay and left the car running. The SA was there and the tech told him it acted up and showed him the codes, they were definitely there.
So after some research, they think it's the EGR valve that the GM is willing to pay half of (of which I've been willing to do this entire time). So, it seems that this is almost resolved, and I'll know more tomorrow. They gave us a loaner until they resolve the issue. At this point, the car has been at the dealership more than it's been in our garage, but I'm happy they're working with us and I couldn't say enough nice things about the dealership.
Will report back with results. Going to do more research on the EGR valve, not real familiar with them on gasoline engines. How much could I be looking at for this repair?
12-21-2016
#17
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
found no codes and all 8/8 readiness monitors were ready.
I got into it a little and immediately it began to misbehave and the CEL began to flash.
they think
I know the mechanics might be under some pressure to take a stab and move on, though a good troubleshooter should make every effort to aim accurately on the first try.
How much could I be looking at for this repair?
I'd say no pay until it's fixed, and only pay for the one thing that fixes it. (MY opinion, but that's worth squat)
Test drive it thoroughly before considering it completed, make sure it's not gonna screw up. Plug in your code reader and all that. Take your salesperson on the final ride if he wants to go too, it sounds like he has a genuine interest in seeing this resolved as well..
12-21-2016
#18
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I know you asked me to disconnect the EGR before to try to troubleshoot it, but I never got that far. I will not be paying a dime until this is rectified. The SA did tell me that he was trying to be fair and save everyone money, which tells me that he wasn't spending a lot of time trying to diagnose it.
I agree, there should be no guesswork here. If it's on their dime or mine, the quality of troubleshooting and repair should not be at stake.
We will see what they come up with tomorrow, and if they just replace the valve and the ports are clogged, it will be staying there. If it runs fine and doesn't misbehave, I plan on cleaning them myself, probably the same time I do the TB, WP, tensioner, etc.
Thank you, ezone, for everything! You've been a great help!
I agree, there should be no guesswork here. If it's on their dime or mine, the quality of troubleshooting and repair should not be at stake.
We will see what they come up with tomorrow, and if they just replace the valve and the ports are clogged, it will be staying there. If it runs fine and doesn't misbehave, I plan on cleaning them myself, probably the same time I do the TB, WP, tensioner, etc.
Thank you, ezone, for everything! You've been a great help!
12-22-2016
#20
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Re: New EX owners
Shouldn't a bad EGR valve or clogged EGR ports trigger an EGR code like P0401 or P1491? I had an Odyssey with a bad EGR valve and clogged ports.
At 103K miles, I would just replace the plugs first anyway, especially given that there may be one plug that is of different age and brand. NGK OEM plugs only. Maybe this will clear up your misfire codes.
Just giving another perspective from a long-time poster but not a mechanic.
At 103K miles, I would just replace the plugs first anyway, especially given that there may be one plug that is of different age and brand. NGK OEM plugs only. Maybe this will clear up your misfire codes.
Just giving another perspective from a long-time poster but not a mechanic.
12-22-2016
#21
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
I've seen a lot.
I've seen EGR valves that will flutter open without setting a code (bucks and stumbles, or shudders at steady speed similar to TCC shudder),
position sensor faults with no code,
EGR valve stuck open just enough to cause bad idle, or stuck open just enough to cause a rich code,
misfires and/or misfire code without a corresponding flow code,
rich or lean fault code because of restricted EGR flow,
spark rattle due to low EGR flow
....and more
Trust me here: no-code running problems can be a whole bunch of fun to diagnose correctly.
12-27-2016
#22
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Heard from the dealership today; apparently they put their Master Tech on it and he said although the valve is opening on the higher side of the spec, the valve is still opening within Honda specs. Then goes onto say the car was about a quart overfull of oil and that they need to drain and refill it to see if it helps and now they're thinking maybe the VTEC solenoid. But they want us to drive it about 500 miles to check oil consumption.
I'm beginning to lose my patience with this dealership and their service department in particular.
There's clearly an issue here, I'm just ready to take it somewhere else if they can't figure it out, surely someone can properly diagnose and repair this..
I'm beginning to lose my patience with this dealership and their service department in particular.
There's clearly an issue here, I'm just ready to take it somewhere else if they can't figure it out, surely someone can properly diagnose and repair this..
12-27-2016
#23
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
They have gone from suspecting an EGR issue to suspecting a VTEC issue?
For misfire codes you can make happen, almost on command?
*scratches head*
EDIT: If you go 500 miles your 30 day warranty will be gone? You will be gone and your mysterious misfire case will be closed without resolution.
Oil overfilled, that's probably typical of uncaring low wage rookie people working the oil change zone. "Every car gets 5 quarts whether it needs it or not" mentality. Worked near a few, they can't be run out fast enough IMO.
"Whut?"
(If I had the authority to fire people, our shop would be damn near empty most of the time LOL)
For misfire codes you can make happen, almost on command?
*scratches head*
EDIT: If you go 500 miles your 30 day warranty will be gone? You will be gone and your mysterious misfire case will be closed without resolution.
Oil overfilled, that's probably typical of uncaring low wage rookie people working the oil change zone. "Every car gets 5 quarts whether it needs it or not" mentality. Worked near a few, they can't be run out fast enough IMO.
"Whut?"
(If I had the authority to fire people, our shop would be damn near empty most of the time LOL)
12-28-2016
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lol I understand what you mean. Someone who is just...there.
I will definitely speak with the SM or GM when I pick up the car to make sure that I can get something from them or on paper that this is a diagnostic step, and not something to get me to go away.
At this point I'm ready to take it to another Honda dealership 45 minutes away just to see what they'd say. Yes, it will be on my dime but we've driven the car less than 100 miles in the three weeks that we've owned it.
I will definitely speak with the SM or GM when I pick up the car to make sure that I can get something from them or on paper that this is a diagnostic step, and not something to get me to go away.
At this point I'm ready to take it to another Honda dealership 45 minutes away just to see what they'd say. Yes, it will be on my dime but we've driven the car less than 100 miles in the three weeks that we've owned it.
12-28-2016
#25
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
I will definitely speak with the SM or GM when I pick up the car to make sure that I can get something from them or on paper that this is a diagnostic step, and not something to get me to go away.
If excessive consumption is verified, who would pay to do anything about it, anyway?
At any rate, I'm guessing the spark plugs have been checked and they don't have crusty ash deposits that indicate oil consumption, nor are the cause of the misfire codes that they can't figure out.... True?
but we've driven the car less than 100 miles in the three weeks that we've owned it.
Why have you only been able to have the car at home for 3 days out of the last 3 weeks (or whatever), with no resolution in sight?
Maybe the GM will offer to get you into a different car?
12-28-2016
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I just left the dealership, didn't drive the car because they got it to misfire after changing the oil and refilling to proper level. So, they are at a loss. BUT, the shop foreman / Master Tech came and spoke with me. He brought with him about a 90 page diagnostic that he's personally going to perform. Starts with plugs, swapping them cylinder to cylinder. (I would have thought this would have already been performed..) Next, while the plugs are out, move to a compression test and pending the results of that test, check / adjust valves. Next step is coil swap, to see if it follows the coil, again, thought this would have been done already. Then, check injectors, some data stream, ECM for proper signal, the list goes on. He left me with a good feeling that he will find it and fix it. We talked for about 30 minutes. The owner of the dealership is out of town until Monday, and he's fairly certain that because Greg May wants to uphold a good standing with the city, he'll just have him fix it. And it will be his job, his car, until he finds it.
I will be having a discussion with the owner, GM and SM with regard to what you said, why can't they fix this in a timely manner and why are we waiting almost three weeks that we've owned the car to get the best tech there, to work on my car?
I'll update soon.
I will be having a discussion with the owner, GM and SM with regard to what you said, why can't they fix this in a timely manner and why are we waiting almost three weeks that we've owned the car to get the best tech there, to work on my car?
I'll update soon.
12-28-2016
#27
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
Ok...I'll keep further comments to myself for now LOL
Post updates when you can.
Post updates when you can.
12-30-2016
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The dealership called this afternoon and said our car was ready and we were already in town so we stopped by to swap cars. First, I spoke with the Master Tech, Wayne, and he said the plugs were new, coils were good, compression was 195-200 across all four cylinders, and valves were in spec. He found bad injectors, they failed the impendence testing he performed and they were failing under demand.
I drove the car and it drove beautifully, not a spit, sputter or misfire at all. It seemed to even idle better and throttle response is much improved.
Glad to say, for now, this misfire headache has been rectified. I've only driven it the 15 miles from the dealership to home and it's running well.
Oh, and at no charge to me. The dealership made it right.
I drove the car and it drove beautifully, not a spit, sputter or misfire at all. It seemed to even idle better and throttle response is much improved.
Glad to say, for now, this misfire headache has been rectified. I've only driven it the 15 miles from the dealership to home and it's running well.
Oh, and at no charge to me. The dealership made it right.
12-30-2016
#29
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: New EX owners
That's an excellent outcome, good to hear it.
The situation didn't seem very promising before, but I'm impressed now.
What about the suspected oil consumption?
The situation didn't seem very promising before, but I'm impressed now.
What about the suspected oil consumption?
