j.stoltz

Hey guys,

I have an 03 Civic Ex 1.7 L with 175,000 miles, currently in the process of fixing a squeaky clutch and after reading several forums I figured the push rod inside the slave cylinder needed to be greased. There wasn't any squeak going on inside the vehicle, but rather under the hood.

So I took matters into my own hands and took the push rod out of the slave cylinder, lubed the spherical head and the body, then put it back into the slave cylinder. After I screwed everything back into place I went to press the clutch to check for the squeak, and to my surprise the clutch pedal sticks to the floor without any resistance.

I then attempted to bleed the clutch and replace with some new fluid, and it seems that there was some air in the clutch lines. After several pumps of the clutch I think I got most of the air out, if not all. So I went to start the car while in reverse. Two really weird things happened: 1. the car immediately starts going backwards (parking brake is on so it didn't go far) 2. It cranks but doesn't start. I didn't let the engine run for too long, maybe a second or two, but the car usually starts in half a second so I thought that was odd. This is probably not something that happens too often but I'm hoping someone here can help me figure this out. btw sorry for the long post, I just realized I wrote a whole chapter lol.

ezone

There's a TSB for replacing the clutch master for noise.
LINKYCLICK: https://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/f...sb/a02-002.pdf

If you correctly reassembled the master, and its internal return spring is not broken or dislodged, then it sounds like you may still have a bunch of air in the system and it can be a PITA to get bled completely. Search the forum for unusual bleeding ideas.

j.stoltz

Come to think of it I remember a spring coming out of the cylinder body, it's possible I didn't set it back in place correctly. Will be updating soon..

ezone

I looked at an accord a while back, it's clutch pedal just lay on the floor (bad clutch master).....took apart the old one and found the internal spring had broke into 4 pieces.

j.stoltz

Dang, they must have been pounding on that clutch! Ha

On a side note, I took out the little piston and saw the spring wasn't attached to it. It was sitting inside the cylinder body. So I ended up snapping the spring back onto the piston and reassembled everything. Now I'm currently bleeding the clutch.. I am curious though, can you do the one man method as you do brakes or does it only work with the 2 person method for bleeding the clutch?

ezone

Gravity bleeding doesn't always work as well as 2 person IMO. Even with 2 people it can still be a PITA.

j.stoltz

I think I'm gonna buy a vacuum pump, this is tedious work lol.

j.stoltz

Alright I've been bleeding the system for about an hour now. No bubbles are coming out of the bleeder valve, fluid is clear, and the clutch pedal still gravitates to the floor. My guess is that it's not something hydraulic, any suggestions?

ezone

You started off with only a noise, not a real clutch problem.

You only touched the master cylinder, right?



I have no idea if you put it back together correctly, but by process of elimination, your problem has to be either inside the master cylinder--- or air in the system---or both.

j.stoltz

I think I found the problem, the clutch release fork seems a little loose. Here's a video of me moving it around.

ezone

The fork is supposed to be that way....and it wasn't a problem before.

j.stoltz

Mostly just noise, there has been issues lately when I engage the clutch in first, especially in reverse, and the engine chatters. Without a good amount of pumping the gas it shakes the whole car. But to answer your question I've only bled the clutch through the bleeder valve on the slave cylinder. My guess is that air is still trapped in the system somewhere.

j.stoltz

Update: No resistance on the clutch with the pedal still sticking to the floor, but on the plus side I managed to get it out of reverse and into neutral! Started the car without any hesitation this time but am unable to put it into gear.

ezone

Jack the front of the car up as high as you can get it?

Did you search for alternate bleeding methods previously discussed in the forum?

bsmiley

I've posted at least twice, count this as 3. I had no bubbles, no pressure on pedal. Vacuum bleeder, $30 harbor freight. 60 seconds of bleeding removed lots of bubbles, stiff pedal. Been almost 2 yrs now.

j.stoltz

Initially I had the car on a set of ramps bleeding the clutch but that didn't make any difference than just having the car set on the ground.

Vacuum pump came in today (similar to Mityvac but different brand) so I hooked it up to the slave cylinder and started bleeding the system with the clutch pedal down. Lots of bubbles coming out, not because of air in the system but because I couldn't get a good seal on the bleeder valve even with wheel bearing grease. Cheap hose that came with it if you ask me.. I still think it did a better job than gravity bleeding since I could get the pressure between 10 and 15 psi (although there was bubbles) and was sucking that master cylinder dry a lot quicker. I never let it get dry though, just a figure of speech

j.stoltz

I'm seeing a lot of bubbles when using the pump, but they're from air leaking into the hose when pumping from the slave cylinder. Did you have to use anything to seal the hose onto the bleeder valve?

ezone

Clutch pedal MUST be UP in order to get any flow through the master cylinder....assuming it's assembled correctly.

Turn a bottle of brake fluid upside down in the top of the reservoir so you don't have to keep refilling it so often

j.stoltz

Ahh okay. I'll try bleeding the system with the pedal up and check back. Hoping I can get some sustainable pressure this time.

j.stoltz

Well after a lot of trial and error I know it's not the master cylinder since there wasn't any leakage or a broken spring, so I didn't have to replace that. I did replace the slave cylinder since it was wearing out, and the new one looks much better. After that was put on, I tried the 2 person bleeding method (open bleeder screw, have helper push on clutch, close bleeder screw, have helper pull back clutch, repeat), after about 15 total pumps I still didn't see a sufficient amount of fluid moving through the hose (about 4 inches of it was filled up) So I'm wondering if there's still air in the system or maybe a leak somewhere along the clutch line?

Also, the clutch still falls to the floor

ezone

Master bypassing internally due to damaged piston seal or bore?
Replace master.

j.stoltz

Noooo don't say that ezone D:

ezone

Ok then don't replace it.
You already replaced the only other moving hydraulic part-- to no avail......

bsmiley

Mine did the same thing, and then I used a vacuum bleeder. If you don't have a compressor, use a hand pump. I was unable to bleed it with the 2 person method....

I had just got the car and the clutch pedal felt like it wasn't fully disengaging, it was a little mushy too. So I replaced the slave cylinder. Here is my post, scroll down to read post #13:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...tch-pedal.html


A few weeks later I replaced the clutch master cylinder (it wasn't very hard to replace, just tight. The combination of slave and master did the trick:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...-cylinder.html

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

2 person bleed method takes some time. I was successful but it took 5-10 minutes of bleeding.

j.stoltz

I gave in and replaced the master cylinder :P at this point I'll do anything to get that damn clutch to pump some fluid again. Now onto the bleeding process

bsmiley

I've done the 2 person bleed many times with no issues. But on my 01 Civic I tried for over an hour. .. no joy.

j.stoltz

I bought a vacuum pump similar to mityvac just a different brand. The only problem I'm having is getting the hose it comes with to seal around the bleeder valve once I loosen the screw. I feel like if I could get a good seal on that, then I'll be able to pump the air out of the lines.

bsmiley

How about some clear tubing from a hardware store?

ezone

During vacuum bleeding, air can always be pulled in around the threads of the bleeder screw.