Doug Lassiter

Time to change ATF in my 2003 LX. I see strong statements that I should use only OEM Honda ATF Z-1. But I don't know where to get it (no, I'm not going to get ATF on e-Bay!) In fact, it isn't really obvious that it is still sold, and what we're seeing now is DW-1.

So the question is, what should I use, and what stores carry it? It would be a shame to have to order it online, as shipping charges are often more than the cost of the fluid itself.

ezone

Z-1 is now obsolete.

Hondas DW-1 is the newest correct fluid for your trans.

Available at almost every Honda and Acura dealership.

HTH

Doug Lassiter

OK, that makes sense.

Now, I understand that DW-1 is synthetic, but Z-1 is not. I probably have the latter in there now. Can I assume that I can just do a drain-and-refill rather than a flush? Do they mix well?

Actually, I believe Honda doesn't even recommend a pressure flush, but perhaps just a 3x refill.

ezone

Yes they mix just fine, and all we do at my dealer is drain and fill once for a routine service.

Correct. No chemicals or machines.


Nobody gets a flush (3-4x D/F) here at my dealer unless they really want it or they have contaminated fluid.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Z1 went fast.

Local Honda dealer close by ??

Order online where they will ship it. Got 2 gallons of Honda blue usps.

Doug Lassiter

Sounds straightforward. Yeah, if I was going to wait 60K, or if the fluid was nasty, I'd probably want to clean it out entirely, but one drain and fill every 30K should work fine. And yes, I guess it would be pretty stupid to make a replacement fluid that you couldn't mix with the original!

What should I look for, re contaminated fluid, in Z-1? If I was getting cross contamination from the radiator, what would it look like? I guess I could check for this at the dipstick.

ezone

We recommend drain and fill every 30k.
I personally like to change more often than that.
I was changing ATF on my mothers 02 Accord at every other oil change, and I changed my own 12 Civic ATF at 10k.

A guy I work with has a 98ish Accord 4 cyl., he changes ATF every time the car goes in the air.


You would think...
All you can do is check the color and smell of the fluid unless you wish to send fluid samples to a lab for evaluation. (Color is not really a good indication of condition, though we judge by that all the time anyway.)

Contamination isn't a usual problem.
Pink milkshake on the dipstick.

Or red oil pumped into the radiator and overflow bottle, and hoses would get soft and spongy if it's had oil in the cooling system long enough.

Doug Lassiter

Excellent. I need to run to the dealer to get some quarts (and probably a new gasket), and I'll be good to go. Wow, every other oil change??

I gather the "milkshake" contamination indicator means it looks cloudy, instead of clear? On the dipstick, mine seems to be light brown and transparent. I guess that means it's just old.

ezone

Yours should hold a little under 3 quarts per each drain and fill.
Yep. Those Accords had a variety of.... *ahem*... "spectacular" trans issues. Changing fluid early and often is about all we can do, and even that can't prevent problems.
It would be looking like a pink milkshake. Literally.

Ever seen an engine that got a bunch of antifreeze mixed in the oil? That looks like a chocolate milkshake.
ATF and coolant mixed looks like strawberry milkshake.

Most likely.

Doug Lassiter

Thanks very much for the excellent advice. As long as we're on the topic though, what's your feeling about Valvoline Maxlife versus DW-1? A bit cheaper, and closer for me.

ezone

Does Honda recommend it?

I work for a dealership, we use the correct specified fluid in our shop.



More:
DW-1 is full synthetic, Maxlife is a blend.

Here, have a look at this thread from a couple years ago:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...51k-miles.html

Does that make it any more correct?



I know damn well others here have different opinions about the Valvoline though. See that thread I linked above or do some searching here.

ezone

Make SURE you have figured out how to fill the trans, and verified it does actually work to fill the trans before you drain the trans!

The basic long funnel usually isn't long enough!

Doug Lassiter

Fair point about making sure I can fill it. I have a (clean!) large funnel with a (clean!) 3-foot piece of hose firmly attached to it. That hose should sit loosely in the dipstick hole. I haven't actually done it yet, but I don't see why it shouldn't work.

I'm glad that the fill is with the dipstick hole rather than behind a fill plug.

Points noted about DW-1 versus Maxlife. Now, I don't expect Honda to recommend anything more than what it sells, but still ... . DW-1 is just a buck or two more per quart (and, FWIW, my dealer is about half a mile further than my auto supply store). Why take chances on a few bucks?

ezone

At least yours won't belch fluid all over if you fill too fast.
Other cars sure will LOL

Something else to check: See how loosely your dipstick fits in the hole. The rubber seal shrinks over time, allowing fluid to ooze out....
The new is a different design. (I forget when the change was made)

(H/T to Matt_75 for the pic)

The handle style is the clue to the original or updated part.


Fresh dipstick is about $12US or $8 on the internet

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry 2=2002&catcgry3=4DR+LX&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=AT+ ATF+PIPE+-+SPEEDOMETER+GEAR

You can ALWAYS find cheaper, that includes just about anything.


I see DW-1 for 8.30 per quart (MSRP). You only need 3 for a simple drain and fill.

A half mile difference? Seriously?
Are you walking this trip? Are both your legs broken or something?

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

DW1

Certainly check your dipstick for 01-05.

Have considered getting a replacement for my 2010s... a bit loose at 5 years.

Doug Lassiter

That's an interesting point about the seal on the dipstick shrinking with time. I noticed that my dipstick is really not well seated in the hole, but just sort of fits loosely on top of it. I was surprised that the fit wasn't more secure. I didn't look at it closely, but that would make perfect sense that the rubber seal had shrunk. Looks from the handle that I have the original. Yes, I should get a new one. I guess the reason why there is a rubber seal is because that hole is also the fill hole, unlike the oil dipstick, which is not in the fill hole.

Now, the half mile was a joke, sort of. The dealer is close, but the auto supply stores are closer. The distance to either is really a non-issue.

ezone

I have a "funnel" adapted (built) to insert in the skinny dipstick tube. On some of the transmissions that have a fill plug (mostly on V6's), it's easier to just stuff this into the dipstick tube to refill. May not be any faster, but easier.

I can be really lazy.
Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy.

The dealer I'm in moved only a couple miles toward the edge of town (closer to an interstate) several years before I started working here. They lost business because of that, some people say it's too far to drive now..... Yeah, right.

Doug Lassiter

Well, I think the point is that in my 03 Civic LX, there isn't a "skinny dipstick tube" for ATF, but rather just a half-inch hole, facing upwards. That's easy to drop a hose into. But yes, you'd think an up-facing hole would be easy to pour stuff into, except it's well buried under a lot of other stuff. So you really need a lengthy hose.

mikey1

i have a long funnel that will reach, but i guess if somebody doesn't, you could always just remove the air intake, its not like its hard or takes alot of time

Doug Lassiter

OK, job done, in half an hour. Advice here was right on. Thanks again.

The only joke was that my Honda dealership was selling the 18mm washer for $3.30! The guy at the counter admitted that was pretty strange because the 14mm was listed for $0.33. So Honda loses decimal points, a have to believe.

ezone

.....MSRP is $2.42

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...ISSION+HOUSING

Doug Lassiter

Well, looking on line for 14mm crush washers, they are indeed also a few bucks. Not sure what he was looking at when he quoted 33 cents.

Actually, a few bucks for an aluminum washer is kinda obscene. Maybe if they were gold plated? Of course, if you buy a bucket of them the cost goes way down.

mikey1

you can re-use washers like that.....many times,

they are not like nylon ones that you need to replace every time

Doug Lassiter

Yes, that was pretty evident after I took the old one out. They are "crush" washers that, even with 40 ft/lb, don't really get crushed. Lesson learned.