kinakoes2

TL;DR -- there really is no comparison.

--

Decided to post this here, as the little Fit motor has almost exactly the same output, both power and torque, as my Civic EX from 11MY ago. I mean, I sure hope that much progress's happened in 14 years... but if there's a Honda I'm actually going to buy new with my own money, it's going to be this one.


Here's an interesting image I scraped off another site earlier in the evening:



See the head configuration in the bottom right corner? That pair of pics made me very happy. Why?

The old Fit's exhaust valve position on the left (smaller ones) is nearly indistinguishable from the D17's. In fact Honda's pretty much designed all their SOHC car Fours after the D17, with this head design -- SOHC VTEC on the intake valves only, splaying apart the tiny fixed-lift exhaust valves right into the cylinder wall. This is partly why they're not great at breathing, and why it doesn't respond like the B- and K-motors to intake and exhaust mods.

The head on the right, is the new Fit L15B Earth Dreams design -- pretty much indistinguishable from the K-series heads except for the DI injector port. See how much bigger the exhaust valves are, and how much closer to the center of the head their stems are? This is proof that the L15B is a real DOHC VTEC design, which it is.

And since it's capable of making virtually the same power (even three more hp) than the D17A2, with 172 fewer cc... it's gotta have high-lift on both sets of valves.

And THAT means... with direct injection, & an airbox that's fed by an intake hose that draws cool air directly from the grille... that Honda may finally be remembering where they came from. Even if that's a bit grandiose... this L15B I'm predicting will be a pretty cool engine to mod, as it'll actually respond to the usual bolt-ons (I'm reading tuners are easily getting 160 hp -- which is B16 territory).

Now scale this setup to 2.0L / 170 hp stock, drop it in a Civic LX/EX that actually outhandles my ancient EX, and make a slightly-detuned Euro Civic Type R, the new US Si... and we can talk about Soichiro-san's resurrection in a deeply-lost company.

kinakoes2

Oh -- and another reason to love the L15B... is its chain-driven, variably-timed cams. No more 60K belts that snap the second you cross over from 59999... or sooner.

bsmiley

I recently read a "first drive" article on the new Fit and noticed the engine numbers. I have a D17A1 on a 2001 LX. I have 115hp but I am 450lbs lighter than the fit.
I've been getting 34.7 mpg on average. I drive 70% city. Fit owners don't seem to be reporting anything close to that mileage. I paid under $3k for my car...

The insurance and taxes are cheap too. If I could drop in a 200hp engine for a reasonable price, I'd do it too.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

compared to our SOHC, i guess the DOHC does have a lot more room for adjustments.
plus the 10 years gap

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

01 Lx = 2465
15 Fit = 2513

That's 48 pounds difference.

I do agree that the MPG could be better. My wife is averaging 36 in her Mazda with a 60/40 commute.

bsmiley

Indeed it is spec'd at 2465 lbs. I searched for the weight on the door frame and I thought I saw 2191... but I must be confused...
I shift at 3K rpm and it does feel slow if I try to keep up with faster traffic from a stoplight. But once in 3rd she keeps up just fine... I love the mpg and she runs great.

ezone

Man, I have only PDI'd one of the new Fits, and barely got to drive it.....and it had the CVT.

They are supposedly making a bunch with manual trans. IDK if we have received any M/T cars yet.

One of the other techs in my shop is thinking about buying one.

kinakoes2

I mean, if we're honest... the new Fit has become what the B16 Civics were to us 15-20 years ago. It even comes in hatch only, just like the pre-EG6 Civics. The present Civic is the same size as well as milquetoast as the Accord was in that era, and the present Accord... well it's a Legend now.

The new Fit, is the resurrection of the affordable, moddable, kickass basic Honda we haven't seen since the 6th gen sunsetted the B16 motor in 2000 -- 15 long years ago. Sheezus, Honda... hold out, much?

I like where this is headed, though. Even if this kind of focus never reaches the USDM Civic... the sheer fact that we have a genuine DOHC VTEC, 6-spd-you're-g**damned-right-I-want-one manual trans, sub-$20K Fit, in showrooms right friggin' now... is quite a lot of nostalgic goodwill for a company I'd almost given up on (much of that feeling, began with the gen that I'm driving right now -- and it's high time for that chiseling, meek era of compromises and laurel-sitting, to end).

bsmiley

Sticker on door frame says GVWR 3395. Honda specs say 2465. which is right and why are they different?

ezone

Guesses:

2465 curb weight?
3395 gross weight?
___________________
930 lb carrying capacity?

kinakoes2

GVWR is what it can carry on its suspension and tires + its curb weight, not how much it weighs.

kinakoes2

I learned this way back in the Nineties from my performance clinic instructor in moto tech school, who modded and built XR400s and XR600s for Baja 1000 racing: SOHC cams are indeed much simpler and have less friction than a DOHC design just from the lack of doubling the number of cam journals. They are also much less expensive to cast and machine than DOHC for similar reasons.

But the major advantage of DOHC heads vs. SOHC... is that you can change IN timing independently of EX timing. This is *crucial* to making power in the rpm range you want, even with fixed valve timing, not to mention variable designs. This not surprisingly, is how you also make your engine more efficient with every drop of fuel, since you can adjust IN timing separately from EX timing to best induct, compress, burn, and evacuate A/F mixture.

My instructor had said, even with the theoretical 300 ft/sec max speed air can flow into a cylinder at sea level (not even F1 cars achieved this in the V10/V8 NA eras), with IN timing locked to EX timing, there was only so much you could do to reshape your powerband... increasing lift/duration only raised the peaks higher, and left the valleys where they were, of not deeper. So it's no wonder Honda chose to return to a DOHC design for its smallest car -- and even on the lowest LX trim level, you'll have the same tune... which is awesome.

I hope this is the result of 10 years (14, really) of forgetting what being the best was like and suffering the inevitable backlash. The only compact I'm even looking at over this new Fit, is the Mazda 3 hatch... which tbh, is still better than anything Honda makes in the segment. It'll be a close race for my dollars.

Myxalplyx

Kinakoes2,

Could you please tell me where I can find this information at regarding the modifications tuners are doing to get the Fit up to 160 hp? Even if you don't know the specifics, where did you read this info at? I can take it from there. Thanks for any info!

Searching on the internet has lead me to this thread.