SadSquatch

HI everyone. I am new to the forum and really need some advice. I am about to close on a house and have been having issues with my 2004 Civic and can't really afford a new car at the moment so hoping i can have this fixed any way here is the background..

I have a 2004 Honda Civic VP it has about 158,000 miles on it. I've had it for about 8 years now. A few weeks ago I noticed that the temperature gauge was shooting up out of no where, i didn't notice any smoke or smell anything so i cranked the heat and got it home. It stopped doing it for a little while and then would start up again. I took it into the shop and they flushed the system and changed my oil ( $250 in the hole for that). About 2 weeks after this I was idling at a red light when the temp gauge again shot up all the way passed the H and was clicking to go further. I again cranked the heat but it did nothing so i pulled over. I let it cool and drove a few miles until it did it again so i had to repeat the process until i was able to get home. I popped the hood and noticed oil on my engine. Again had no smoke and did not smell anything burning. Called the shop and brought it in they did a blot test and said there was oil mixing with coolant so the head gasket must be leaking. Quoted me about $1200 with timing belt change and $700 without changing the timing belt. I've been struggling with a decision, would it be worth it to do the work or should I cut my losses? The car blue books for about 3k

Money is tight so I've been struggling with a decision could use the help of people who are more knowledgeable about the car and the work. Thank you all in advance.

mikey1

this does not make any sense,

they need to remove the timing belt to change the head gasket, so the only additional cost to replace the timing belt should only be the cost of the belt itself, which is about 30-40 bucks,

looks like they are trying to charge you $500 dollars for a timing belt

wether the repairs are worth it or not is a personal choice, the book value of the car might be 3K, but it is not worth anywhere close to that as it sits right now,

bsmiley

If you have a friend or relative with a decent set of tools you can probably do both the head gasket and timing belt yourself. There are multiple DIY guides for both procedures in the DIY forum...
Go for it, its not as hard as you think.

ezone

No they don't.

I sure don't have to remove it to take the head off. (I've said this before.)

I can remove the upper timing cover, take the spring off its peg, slip the timing belt off the cam gear to the side, never remove it from the engine..
Kinda like this




Alldatas labor time guide allows less than one hour additional labor to replace the timing belt along with the head gasket job.
I disagree with Alldatas labor estimate for this particular item, it should be higher.


But the shop wanting an additional $500 for the timing belt is out of line IMHO.

mikey1

i would never trust somebody doing it that way, including myself,

how can you make sure the teeth on the belt are properly inserted into the grooves on the crank pulley and water pump pulley during reassembly?.....you can't

how can you make sure the timing belt spring is still properly inserted into the tensioner during reassembly?.....you can't

i also would not trust lining up TDC on the crank without being able to see the marks on the timing belt drive/crank pulley,

there is too much uncertainty and risk doing it that way for my liking,

ezone

Doesn't really matter if you like it or not.

I was pointing out that complete removal of the timing belt is not necessary to complete the head gasket job, no matter what the FSM says.

kinakoes2

Agree. For experienced experts only.

In the moto world, a very similar proc to ezone's is involved in either cam or head removal for an inline-Four sportbike. But confirming timing marks doesn't have a tower, suspension and wheel in the way... it's one cover, plus a Hyvo camchain won't tend to move a relatively-tiny crank, when it has 13:1 compression. Much safer... plus all engine mounts are intact on a sportbike.

A shop that has to stay solvent by charging $500 for this hour and change job isn't going to be full of experts you want working on your car, either.

I became a tech partly to not be dependent on a shop tech's integrity to fix my stuff... at the very least I'd know enough to muckrake a scam like this $500 nonsense. Hope the OP finds a solution.

greenbackz

if your gonna replace the head gasket do it properly ie. timing belt since you gotta remove it anyways.. at 158,000 it's probably due for a change pretty soon i reckon

madmax99

Honda factory trained master tech.

This generation civic has always been prone to head gasket leaks.
More than the other generations. I believe the factory torque setting for the head bolts to be too light. I set them to 65 ft. lbs. during head repairs and the outcome is much better. Some of our customers who replace the head gasket at 100k have continued to be problem free from another head repair and have 300k+ on their odometers.
This is a great generation civic. You would be wise to repair and keep it.
Replace the timing belt. The Mitchell added labor does not necessarily represent the extra time needed to replace the t-belt with the head repair.
This could be the reason the shop is charging you more. Our shop is similar.
Much of the side of the engine must be torn down. The price quote you received is actually quite reasonable.
And to the contributors: zip-tie the timing belt to the camshaft pulley in two spots at the top of the pulley. Then simply take the bolt out of the camshaft and set the pulley/belt assembly to the side. You don't need to loosen the tensioner or fight with the t-belt during reinstallation. You also wont bunk the timing/teeth with this method. Done this way you won't screw it up. Even if you're a moron.
I could do this repair with my eyes closed.