Honda Toyota

I'm looking to buy a used car. I just need a clunker, something $5000 or cheaper. I prefer an automatic transmission. Something that is extremely reliable and gets great gas mileage. I'm limited in money and income so I can't spend much on repairs.

From the reading I been doing it seems the Civic and Corolla are most reliable. Out of the two which is more reliable? I know this is a Civic forum but can I get some unbiased honest views? Anyone ever own both? A Civic or Corolla that is around $5000 usually is in the year of 2000 to 2004 with 90k to 170k miles on it from the dealer websites like autotrader.com

I've read that the Corolla transmissions are more reliable than the Honda automatics in the 7th gen Civics. When I read forums about both cars I usually see a common theme like: "The Civic is more fun to drive with better steering but louder and the Corolla is quieter and more comfortable."

What are some of the problems and things I will need to look out for and pay close attention to if I buy either one?

Poopies

iTrader: (4)

I have owned both a 2002 Corolla S and my 2003 2 Door Civic EX, both manual transmission. I really enjoyed both cars.

*The Corolla was really nice, spacious, and got OUTSTANDING gas mileage. The summer before it was slain, I had a 500+ mile tank! I never had any problems with it until the bitter end. I was young and dumb in those days, so I really only treated it like a commuter car. I was heartbroken when it got totaled in early 2008 but I was completely unhurt, so it's pretty safe too.

*I got my Civic a few weeks later and I've never looked back. Not only are aftermarket parts plentiful, but they're pretty cheap too. I've only ever had to get it towed into a shop once, and that was because I somehow stripped some threading when I was changing the oil. It was a cheap fix. Gas mileage is still awesome... especially when you routinely make long trips. I get about 350+ miles to a tank now, but at my last job where I had a 16 mile commute I could easily get around 410+. I also love the fact that you have a choice of different body styles for the Civic; I've always thought that a 2 door Corolla might look nice.

I know you can find a decent Civic for your price range if you are thorough enough... and I definitely recommend opting for stick to expand your options. I've never had any problems with either car's transmission, although sometimes my Civic's tranny gives me a little crap when I'm shifting into reverse. Nothing major though.

Corolla
+Great gas mileage
+The newer ones look good
+Pretty safe in an accident
+Fun to drive
-Only one body style :-(

Civic
+Almost as good gas mileage
+Wealth of cheap parts
+Easy to work on
+Available with 2 doors!
+I love my car more every time I drive it
-Transmission can be a butt at times

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I would probably lean more towards a civic but a 6th gen. Maybe you don't want to go that old (96-00) but they are considered one of Honda's best gens along with the 5th gen. I have 180k miles on my 01 and it has been very good to me and has not had the typical 7th gen problems like the head gasket. It's a 5 speed so no transmission issues.

I have never owned a Corolla but have driven one, a newer one and it did ride nice. Definitely was not the best at handling or road feel but it was comfortable.

If you are going to mod then the civic would be the better option. If your a DIYer there are lots of parts available for civics. Honda parts are also cheaper then Toyota parts, I have had to buy Scion parts before and they can get pricey.

Both are reliable but I would probably say overall the Corolla is over the 7th gen, maybe not the older gens.

kinakoes2

My fam's owned nothing but Honda, Toyota, and Nissan since the '70s, about twenty vehicles.

For $5000 you could get a decent but not perfect 8th gen, which eliminated a few of the problems with the 7th like the HG problem IINM (but, they did have their own problems, like cracked blocks). I'm not a fan of Honda automatics, though, so my reccie would be for a Corolla of the same vintage, '06 or newer. If you can swing a Matrix, the autos are excellent... it's the XR-S manual trans that ate clutches like mad. Loved mine when I owned one. Live axle at the rear so Civics handled and rode better... but the hatch bodystyle sold me on better utility.

lowlife9

id say corolla since the 7th gen has auto trans issues but man are corollas boring.

Warminwisco

The corolla is not more comfortable IMO. I think of the Corolla as I reliable sponge.

lowlife9

why does the new corolla look like a dodge dart.

Honda Toyota

How does the Honda Insight and Toyota Echo compare to the Civic and Corolla in terms of reliability and fuel mileage? Or should I just stick to looking for a Civic or Corolla?

lowlife9

i here those hybrid batteries are very expensive to replace so keep that in mind when buying a used hybrid.

kinakoes2

Less than 1% of Prius batteries from the NMH era have been replaced for any reason, most of them due to crash damage, not end-of-life. The majority of them go easily into the service life of gas engines, over 200K, without requiring replacement.

The key to battery life is keeping them at a certain temp, and the Prius ones have systems in play to prevent overheating (and esp overcooling in winter). They're soulless robotic plasticky ***** on the surface of driverdom... but their batteries are pretty solid.

Speaking of driver's cars... Honda obviously knows how to make them, yet gave us two flops under the Insight badge (the first one much better than the second one) and an underwhelming CR-Z. So unless you're willing to spend i8 or Tesla money... it's a harder engineering problem than it looks.

Honda Toyota

Are any of you familiar with any of the Nissan's of the early 2000's like the Sentra? How does it compare to the Civic or Corolla in reliability and gas mileage? Or even Mazda?

I'm not stuck on Honda or Toyota. I'm willing to keep an open mind if there are any other brands and models comparable to the Civic in Corolla.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I had a 01 Sentra Spec-V SER. Not really the same as the regular Sentra. I had issues with the MAF sensor constantly and ended up getting rid of it due to having issues. I don't believe they have the same engine as the standard Sentra though.

My friend has a 98 Protege and it has been very reliable for him. He isn't into cars either so he does the bare minimum as far as maintenance.

kinakoes2

Unless it's a performance model, stay away from Nissans, ESP pre-Renault-takeover...

That vintage Sentra was amazingly bad, hatefully unreliable. I remember a friend in Phx who had an entry-level 2-door '01 Sentra, not abused but it was 115 degF desert... and it spontaneously spit her distributor up out of the engine on the freeway one night, ruining a lot of parts in the melee. Luckily she had all service done at the dealer, so when they went in, found it was some $0.08 roll pin or bolt or something that had sheared off. They were not in the same league as a Corolla or Civic, much closer in build quality and problems as an Escort. The Protege handled WAAY better, but this was prior to Mazda's seeing the light on rust issues (pre-2nd-gen 3, IOW)...

My dad's '07 Frontier puked up a driver's window lift due to a fitment error on the vapor barrier on the door cavity... easy to fix since it's a truck, but Nissan would've reamed him ten a-holes to fix it (I did for $85 incl parts). So their quality issues, while not all fixed, are waaaaay better than pre-Carlos-Ghosn (CEO of Renault). Jukes are pretty cool if you're blind ... and if I wanted a 4-cyl engine in my Sentra, that turbo 1.6L Juke mill is the one I want. Of course, they're not offering an SE-R anymore.

EDIT: and if I'm really honest... if I could find a first-gen Mazda 3 hatch with the 2.0 or 2.3 MZR (Ford called their 2.3L version the Duratec) and a manual, not bro-modded into oblivion or smacked repeatedly around by a teenager? That'd trump comparable Civics and Corollas to me... but they won't be as reliable as a Corolla... close, though.

Warminwisco

For 5k you are taking a risk whatever you buy. How many miles a year do you drive under 10-12K? Then mileage is not that critical but reliability is.l Look into LeSabre or Bonneville. They get 30 mpg hwy 23-24 all around and are bulletproof, senior driven and often well taken care of. Plus resale value is subpar as they are a larger car but you have more space, safety and comfort. Good Luck

kinakoes2

Yech... ever try to hustle a 5K LeSabre around? Or get a manual trans in one?

Forget 24 mpg observed, more like 20-21 (they rate 18 city) if you live in a town where it freezes... have fun swapping plugs or O2 sensors in a car with two heads. And even the worst of the 4-cyl imports mentioned gets a full 3 - 4 mpg better combined than the V6 domestics. Depends on what you want, but I'd vote against domestics unless they're trucks... or your commute is >100 mi or on rougher roads, which is when their softer suspensions gain value. Get good at ball joint and swaybar link replacement, in that case.

The one thing LeSabres and Bonnevilles have going for them are their drivetrains, which have been so long in production that most of their problems are found and corrected. Still, no say how badly a $5K Bonneville will get drivetrain-repair-wise if neglected, though. My '04 Civic, though badly abused by two previous owners, still drives better than my Escort SE automatic, which was dealer-serviced and senior-driven (one of them was family).

lowlife9

yeah i remember my aunt bought a brand new third gen sentra from the dealer and the engine blew after 4 months.

Honda Toyota

Are any of you familiar with the VW Jetta TDI Diesel's? I've heard and read the diesel engine will last longer than a regular gas engine. But other problems can occur like the turbo needing to be replaced. My friend has a 2003-04 VW TDI Diesel and he had to replace the turbo which was very expensive and something went wrong with the air conditioner. The thing with VW's is if you do need to replace anything the parts are EXPENSIVE!

Stock 99

Years ago my parents owned a mid 80's Jetta Diesel and aside from it's mpg it was a joke. Anytime the temperature went below 0C it needed to get a jump from my $500 Civic (even with a block heater plugged into it). All of the wheel bearings failed over 5 years and the wheel bearings were press fit sleeves that were not a DIY job. The oil pressure light went on and the dealer said to ignore to it and sure enough the engine blew....and on and on and on. They also had a gas powered VW Rabbit that was reasonably realible but similar in terms of not being DIY friendly.

A friend of mine had a new TDI VW about 5 years ago and it seems they had solved alot of issues of the older ones (quiet, cold starts) but still very DIY unfriendly and probably expensive repair bills when work need to be done.

I've never understood the whole VW enthusiast crowd....I personally wouldn't give you $50 for one....and I certainly wouldn't want to be seen driving one...especially a diesel because it means you are cheap and care nothing for cars/driving.

I drive a 1999 Civic and I'm starting to look toward my next car as well. I've driven nothing but Japanese vehicles my entire driving career but I'm hoping I won't have to buy another Civic. The cars that get my attention lately are Mazda 3 and Ford Focus.........if money wasn't a factor then Toyota 4x4 truck.

Wha...?!?

Honda Toyota

Yeah, the more I read and hear about the VW TDI the more I want to avoid them. But why do you say that TDI drivers are cheap and don't care about cars? That went over my head.

How come you don't want another Civic?

kinakoes2

I could go on and on about Japanese vs. German cars and why German cars, esp the entry-level ones, seem to conk out indiscriminately and cost so much to repair, when the same Japanese car from the same market will fail less and cost less to right... but I won't. I'm waaaay to wordy as it is.

The bottom line: I still feel German cars, esp those from Volkswagen AG (VAG ) lack reliable electrical systems. Part of it is due to the fact that German engineers love to try new tech and encourage complexity in even entry level cars, instead of trying to refine what's already there (Japanese 'kaizen' philosophy -- not only Toyota's either... it's cultural). That and the fact that they like to make up what's lost on the purchase price by jacking up service and parts costs... make a used entry-level German car an iffy decision.

Know why a 2006 VW Phaeton, an $80K car brand new, can be had for ~$12K now? Try servicing its W8 or W12 engine, or worse, its diesel V10 after a year. Then for 8 more years. These cars are junk after five years... which for a luxury buyer, is when the lease is up and they can slide into another brand new car. For us used owners though... we get to enjoy all the failures at once.

One vote against the Jetta TDI. Had a friend in Phoenix with a 4th-gen Jetta GLI VR6... so many window lift, turn signal, interior light, no-start, dash illum and radio problems. She no longer has one now (think she got a Lexus ES330 then a RX350. No more knowing the service writers by name).

Stock 99

Meh....if your a car enthusiast then you watch Top Gear UK and Jeremy Clarkson says, "diesel drivers are cheap and care nothing about cars/driving"



I've owned 4 Civics now '78 '79 '81 '99 they were alright....cheap transportation....easy to fix. I know lots of people that own 7th gens....I don't particularly like them....newer gens even less

I just bought an old POS Ford F150 and had to buy a few parts for it and really it's shocking how much cheaper the parts were vs Asian (import) parts. One example was a had to buy an ebrake cable for the F150 and it was $22...almost that very same piece of cable for my Toyota truck 5 years ago was $100. I have another friend who put 500 000 km on a 2005 Ford Focus and hammered the hell out of it and said it was reliable and performed well...he drives a 2013 Civic now and after 1 1/2 years it's falling part (paint/badly). Mazda is just a Ford underneath an Asian badge.

kinakoes2

Part of that is domestic trucks get to enjoy trade tariffs, not to mention where the part is made and how much overhead is in shipping. Imports get tagged on both.


He's probably rich then. I know a client who fixes rental cars on the island here who will never touch another Focus as long as he lives -- they nearly bankrupted him (another manufacturer who just can't seem to master reliable automatic transmissions in FWD cars). Since you're speaking in km rather than miles, perhaps Canadian or European Focuses are much more reliable, as they do have a lot of content USDM Focuses won't have, esp in Europe. If so, good on him. Not the case in the States.


Common misconception -- Mazda hasn't shared Ford money since 2010. They also reported 80% fewer warranty claims on the C1-platform-shared 2011 last-generation 3 vs. the 2010 model, when they stopped using Ford's part suppliers and distribution infrastructure -- coincidence? Nope. And the current all-Skyactive 3 doesn't use any Ford parts -- design, development, manufacturing, distribution... all Mazda. Good on them -- because it's a hit out of the park.

There's a deal underway right now to use Mazda's Skyactive drivetrains... in a new line of Toyotas. If that doesn't speak to how good the tech is... don't know how else to convince you.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I do love a clean looking Gulf or GTI Hatch, old ones and new. They are German so they are suppose to have great road manners. I have also heard that they are expensive to own and maintain. You can't check or change the trans fluid on some models.

Audi is another brand I like but again, to expensive to buy and maintain. Not DIY friendly either.

My wife and I actually just traded her TL in because of the gas mileage Ended up getting a 2014 Mazda 3 Hatch. 36mpg and fun to drive! Not as nice as the Acura but thats not a fair comparison.

I just did the front brakes on my POS f-150 and it was cheaper then the Civic's.


Thats why I was ok with buying a Mazda. I researched first to see how much Ford had a say still. I like how they broke away are are doing there own thing again. I was a little disappointed though. I was looking under the hood of the 3 and saw that the ABS system was made in Japan (thats good), but the brake booster said made in China (not good). Hopefully Mazda didn't copy Ford to much on the Chinese part companies. My dad has a 2012 or 2013 Focus and it has been in the shop for transmission issues and Sync issues already (under warranty). It is a fun car with great road manners.

Good to know Makes me feel better.

kinakoes2

Tbh, all Japanese companies use China for manufacturing now, as well as domestics. Gone are the days of fierce nationality in automobile parts manufacturing; the new world way is to prevent war with the largest army on earth by doing vigorous trade with them (well, as much as possible with the Chinese still hypocritically hating the Japanese publicly at a very visceral level).

Remember that some pretty impressive quality products are made there, like iPhones, SO-DIMM RAM and SD cards. Sure aftermarket car parts on RockAuto will still be painfully-obvious, sweatshop'd-with-lead-and-mercury-through-the-roof junk... but the real crap nowadays is made in SE Asia, as Chinese products (esp Taiwanese) have risen out of that stigma somewhat (the still make crap, but not consistently at least ). I ordered a motor mount for my Escort from a company called Anchor last year, and it was so poorly-made that I swear the manufacturer was some aboriginal native in Thailand making it with a hacksaw and a rusty Lincoln arc welder in a forest clearing somewhere (said 'made in Thailand' on a little square sticker in stamped red ink). But that's even unfair anymore, as entire cars are now made there (Asian Honda Jazz and some Nissans and I think even Toyotas), not to mention some good tires (Bridgestone has its lo-cost imprint company called Fuzion HQ'd there, and they made tires for my Paseo that were beyond excellent -- $50 each ).

So I wouldn't worry too much if Mazda had to tap some Chinese or Korean volume manufacturing resources in order to come up with a 3S hatch that's as impressive as it definitely is (esp Korean products remind me of a rising Japan circa 1980s... excellent value). I've been following the new 3 since late 2012... and it's what a Civic was in the mid-'90s -- obviously and conspicuously dominant over anything else in the segment. Today's Civic? Not so much.

lowlife9

dude obviously the new dodge dart not the 60s dart lol.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Hey! what about my two miatas?!? (engine aside, mind you )

:P

corolla seats suck, killed my back in 2 hours. Drove my civic from TN to Quebec, and then back (year and an half in-between, mind you) and my back was still intact after 20 hours. control buttons in the civic are way better. that's what actually matter, there's were you touch the car, live it.

kinakoes2

When it comes to the 'Jalopnik' question... the answer is always 'Miata'. I *will* own one someday.

Also, remember that it was Ford that got the better end of the deal with Mazda -- the MZR engine is a Mazda design, as is the control-blade rear suspension that was under Focuses for years. Ford also stole the BG chassis from the '91 Protege to make the '91-'02 Escorts actually handle worth a damned.

I knooow... my Paseo seats were fine on a 29-hr mission from Phoenix to Seattle when I moved there in 2006, as well as four (4!!!) roundtrips back and forth from Visalia, CA to Phx in 1999, moving back. They've really slacked on ergos in Toyotas since the pre-'96 heyday... I remember my girlfriend's '92 Corolla being really comfy for roadtripping. I do like the seats in my ES2... keeps you in place without cutting circulation or making me fidget. There's also a dead pedal, which is disappearing from cars now.

Due to this... until there's some serious turnaround in the company, I won't be replacing the Civic with a Corolla or other Toyota... it'll be a Mazda.

Honda Toyota

I looked at a used Corolla earlier today at a used car dealership. It was a 2004 Corolla with 110,000 miles on it for $5400. It had the CarFax. I didn't test drive it.

On the carfax it said it had 3 previous owners and no accidents. The dealer said that there is a minor problem with the front bearing on the wheel. He said we can take it to an independent mechanic to get it inspected. My mechanic is on vacation till next week.

Should the dealer pay for any damage that the mechanic finds? And if the mechanic does find some things wrong with the car should I ask or demand the dealer lower the price of the car? I don't want to have to put thousands of dollars into the car after I buy it to get it on the road.

What should I tell my mechanic to look for when he inspects it? I was told it's important to check the timing belt. What else?

lowlife9

the dealer won't lower the price they will ''fix'' the problems themselves as cheaply as possible probably rig it.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I kinda skimmed this. In the small car segment for me:

Chevy Cruze #1
Honda Civic #2
Toyota Corolla #3
Ford Focus #4
Nissan Sentra #5
Dodge Dart #2000

The corolla is .. as lowlife said TOO boring. I own a Cruze so I'm a little biased but man do I love it.