djstorm100

As the title states what are the causes (besides overheating or neglect)? I curious if it was lack of flatness on the block or head or the gasket it self. The reason I ask is mine popped and while I could do it I simply don't have the time. Luckly I have friends that work at old honda I use to work at so I'll have them do it.

If replace is the "problem" fixed or will it go out just as quick as this one did (104k)? I've seen alot of hondas with over 200k with original headgasket. Honestly don't want to have to put up with this again. Is it a problem with the motor it self or just the gasket material?

ezone

Some do, some don't. It's just something they do, a known problem area. Deal with it. Fix it right.

IMHO, I think that using TTY head bolts with the MLS gasket would have been a more durable setup.....but I'm not one of those high-paid engineers so WTF do I know?

I looked at an 04 with 97k today, looked like it has the problem too. Reservoir was overflowing and the radiator was low.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

As far as I know mine is original. I'm second owner and first owner had dealer records. I'm sure maintance plays a role in it.

I'm at 170k miles.

It will go on my way to work tomorrow now that I said that!

Civicnoobie

What are precautions to take? Dont headgaskets eventually go on all cars no matter what?

ezone

.No.

djstorm100

Wonder if they make TTY Bolts for this gen civic. I thought they had them to start with but after reading and realizing they didn't I could see it beeing a issue. The stock gasket is MLS right?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I think it's a combination of things... honestly.. But lack of maintenance or failure to recognize a small problem causes 90% of them to go. The other 10% could be the bolts, or the incredibly high engine revolutions on the highway for extended periods of time.

ezone

Not that I'm aware of, and I have never bothered to check if TTY's from any other engine might work. Yes, the OE head gasket is MLS on this engine.

I got the OK to make the inspect/diag today on the 04, it's breached between the combustion chamber and water jacket on #2. Got the OK to do the job too. It's apart and waiting on gaskets to arrive right now.

ezone

Disagree.

What sort of maintenance do you think could be done to avoid this extremely common issue? Many of these crapped long before the first coolant service was due.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Some type of failure usually leads to a blown head gasket. Every head gasket I've seen go on these usually has some other issue (Stuck thermostat, air in coolant system from work done, etc.) The list is endless but usually there is an underlying problem. Even when mine went my thermostat was leaking, I had air in my coolant system which caused overheating which caused my stupid head gasket to go

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

HOWEVER I should add you see a lot more of them then I do.. so.. I'm not going to disagree with you hahaha

ezone

95% (or more) that I see have the head gasket itself as the underlying cause. JMHO, YMMV.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Strange... there must be.. something

Matt_75

I'm no professional mechanic or engineer, but if I had to take a guess, I think that maybe there's a little better burn going on in these engines than in previous generations for EPA crap and also the sealing material on the head gasket around the fire ring can't handle the heat and over a period of time slowly wears away. Just my .02.

djstorm100

So you're saying the headgasket/sealing design of the motors are not good and headgaskets go on these just go for no apparently reason. I'll do WOT pulls but its when getting on the highway other than that I baby it and do all the maintenance.

Are they still popping even after being replaced? (if so, I'm going to get rid of it)

djstorm100

If this was indeed true mine wouldn't have failed. I'm on top of my maintenance. Take care of car and the car will take care of me.

ezone

I'm a mechanic, and I have just enough engineering in my background to be dangerous and annoying.....But I think what everyone wants here is a failure analyst. I'm not one. That's pretty much it. Design weakness IMHO. I don't think I have seen one fail a second time for without another primary cause.....but then you have to figure I work for a dealer. By the time a car is old enough to have the head gasket failed twice, it may no longer come to our shop. In fact, 7th gens are getting few and far between as it is already here.

djstorm100

I see. I can replace it no problem but I more or less was hoping once it was replace it was good to go like a "normal" honda. I'm about to sell my mustang (640hp) and pocket the gas and drive the civic around BUT if it is going to go again (I've seen some stock ones go at 50 or at 150k) then I was going to get rid of it and get a 11' or 12' accord or camry. I like the new 13's but I think the transmission are new for that gen (not all the bugs worked out of them yet).

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.. these cars are interesting. They have high failure rates on two major things. Head gaskets, and automatic transmissions. To me that's a major problem and a fail for Honda.

djstorm100

Transmission was fixed in 04-05 (mainly 05)

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Great the last model year the transmission was fixed. That makes it better lol.

ezone

The 13 Accord 4 cylinder is the one that got the new trans (CVT, and I like the way they drive a lot better than the old style CVT they put in Civics).

The Accord V6 still has a normal automatic trans.

djstorm100

Hey it makes it better when yours is a 05 lol


Thanks for the input. I wonder the long term life of the new trans..since it is "new" will it have bugs.


Pulled the head took 2 hours and went a head and took the timing belt off. I've read some people don't do it. It's sad to say but this is my first time doing a headgasket when I've been turning wrenches for almost 10 years. On a civic atleast. I don't see any real signs the gasket is bad. However the exhaust valves on clyinder 3 were a lighter color than the rest (brownish/white) while the other ones had clear carbon burn. I think it is safe to say this was the trouble cylinder. I put wd40 in the clyinder wall (2 of them) to prevent rust until I can get parts tomorrow and seal the head.


Do you guys normal keep the intake manifold and exhaust manifold on the head because I did.

ezone

No issues that I have seen yet. Can't tell you about the rest of the country though. If the problem was small, it's almost impossible to see where the failure is, even when you know which cylinder was the problem. MLS gaskets just don't show like a composite gasket can. I remove it all because IMO that makes it lighter and less awkward, and I take the head all the way off and measure for warpage and have it machined if necessary.

Be careful when you set it back down, there are valves open and they bend very easily. I hope you didn't set it flat on a bench.

djstorm100

I took it off with both manifolds. and used both manifolds to help hold the weight when I let the oil drain in to plastic drain pan. I then put the valve cover back on and flip it over so the vavles were facing up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...ps5eece6ee.jpg

Civicnoobie

What makes you say mainly 05? Whats the difference between the 04 and 05s? Ive heard that 04 was when they were fixed.

djstorm100

05 started coming out in late 3rd quarter of 04 and 04's started to come out in late 03. The change didn't take place until 04, thus most of the models that have the issues corrected are the 05's.

Civicnoobie

Are you serious? Im not happy! What exactly did they do when you say changes? Do you know when in 04 the change started?

And most importantly, how many months (rough time frame) would you say from when a car gets built in the factory to when it gets to the dealer?

My auto trans was delivered to the dealer in May of 2004. So if the 04 trans started in late 03, im guessing im safe to say that I have the 04 fixes?

Thats why im curious how long it takes from when a car is built to when it hits the dealer and if the trans put in is at the beginning or near end of the factory building process. Since may and 3rd quarter are relatively close in time, im wondering what the odds are that i got the fixes in mine.

I do know that the serial number on my trans wasnt listed on the Honda TSB where it listed all the serial numbers of the trans with the faulty clutch packs. Mine wasnt on it.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

^ Based on what he i saying you don't have the fixes. Cars that were delivered in September or October on in 2004 had the fixes. I'm not exactly sure what he is talking about though because I don't know anything about the automatic transmission. Not sure what the fix was. I do know however that the internal filter is the biggest cause of failure on these transmissions. The filter gets plugged up and because it can't get changed eventually causes the tranny to implode. This wasn't fixed in 05, but they may have found a workaround.

djstorm100

What about tqing down the head a little more? 10lbs+