X02

Car wants to die while accelerating. Bogs down and picks up. Went to Auto Zone and got P0131 and P0132 codes, as well as p1298. Should I change the sensor? I recently changed bank 1 sensor about 3 months ago. Could it be a blown fuse? Help, before I have to take it to a shop, which I feel like I dont need to.

ezone

P0131: O2 sensor B1S1 low voltage
P0132: O2 sensor B1S1 high voltage

Probably a bad primary sensor. Did you replace the correct one? Did you use the cheapest sensor available?
Replace it with a DENSO sensor.


P1298: ELD (common failure, just replace it--Here's the bulletin: http://www.crvownersclub.com/TSBs/2005/05-006.pdf

X02

I saw a forum post on here that said to replace the upstream sensor with a BOSCH, so i did. I'm guessing that may be the problem. So I should switch to denso and see if that corrects it?

ezone

This site has been down for like the last hour.

I would never tell anyone to use a Bosch sensor in these cars.
My job is to solve problems, not create them.Huge problem.
If DENSO is who made the original sensor, then that is what you need to replace it with. (The only other possible brand would be NTK...look on your original sensor. Parts catalog does not tell the manufacturer.)

Look it up on the DENSO website. You can also cross reference by the Honda part number there.

X02

Replaced the Sensor with a Denso. The idle is back to normal. Drove it all day today and didn't stall not one time. I even changed the transmission fluid. The check engine light is still on, but I'm guessing its the P1298 code still. I'll be replacing that shortly as well. Thanks for the info.

ezone

Did you ERASE the codes after replacing the sensor? You need to do that.

The P1298 normally does not turn on the CEL.

X02

Today, a new code popped up. I replaced the sensor, and the ELD. I am getting a P0420 code, cat system efficiency below threshold bank 1. The P1298 code was not there, so I guess thats a plus. So, where do I go from here? Replace the cat? If so, where should I purchase from? Is this a pressing issue that needs to be resolved asap?

ezone

Needs a cat.
Now that there is a reliable O2 sensor (no longer setting O2 related codes), the computer could run and complete the cat monitoring tests, and apparently yours failed.

My normal procedure might include checking for:
Exhaust leakage
Proper fuel control by the PCM
Misfires
And figuring out WHY the cat might have failed, so that can be corrected. No sense installing a $1000(?) cat if it could be turned into garbage in a matter of 2 minutes because of a poor running engine.
Got a ton of miles on the car?

In your case, the Bosch sensor may factor in to the cat failure if that was actually causing fuel control problems for the computer.
Entirely possible, but certainly not the only possibility.


If it comes down to replacing the cat,
First choice is always factory.
Second choice is California C.A.R.B. certified/approved.

Any other cat choice is not worth my time. You can go be mad at someone else if you want to get the cheapest cat possible.

X02

The car has 152,000 miles on it. So, before going to buy a new cat I should have those listed things checked out? Would it be best to take it to the dealer? I'm thinking that the mileage screams replacement, but maybe the sensor played a factor. I just need the car to keep running, without it, I dont make money.

ezone

I'd tell you right now that a dealer will charge you 100+ just to read the code and tell you that it needs a cat (and probably more stuff you may or may not need). Here's an estimate for that (1300 McDoubles?), and you and your precious family are going to die in a fiery crash if you don't do it right now this very minute....Sign here.

I cringe, knowing how the majority of them operate.




A cat code alone does not stop the engine from running. It merely means the cat is no longer efficient enough to make the PCM happy.
IF the cat has failed in such a way that the element inside broke apart, that can cause serious running problems (clogged exhaust).
No matter how it failed, it will keep the CEL on so you might never know if a new problem pops up later on.

Do you live in an area that has mandatory emissions testing?
Can you DIY a cat replacement?
Can you live with a CEL staring at you all the time?
Can you read your own codes?
Is there a performance problem?

O2/Cat code foolers?

X02

Yea, I hear you on the, "sign on the dotted line, or else your doomed stuff". This is my first foreign car, (I have a Mustang that I park most of the time) so I am learning a lot right now. I bought the car used, and took it in for a recall and got hit with all these issues. i took the sheet, bought all the parts and installed the stuff I could, and had a family mechanic do the hard stuff. The family mechanic does all work on our vehicles for pretty cheap so labor is not an issue.

As far as performance goes, I really can't tell. It still drives the same when I first got it if you ask me. I got the car at 114,000 miles, and it drives better after replacing warped rotors, bad tires, broken ball joints etc... The only thing I am noticing is the idle fluxuates a little bit, from say 900 to about 8. It's a four cylinder, so compared to a V-8, the power seems minimal. The typical high rpm going up a hill, but no torque kind of thing.

I live in an emission state, but just did my emissions test a few months ago, and Im good for 2 years. I dont mind looking at a symbol. I just want it to run. I see that converters are like 750-1000 dollars. Im saving for a wedding, so I really dont have the money, however. If the exhaust backs up due to this failure and the car won't start, thats what scars me. But if its ok to run with that code, then im not panicking. The only problem thus far, was the bogging down, wanting to die, loss of power when pressing the gas. But that was the faulty sensor, and since replacing that with a DENSO, it hasn't done that. Plus the previous codes are all gone. Advanced auto has the free code reader. I wish i could use my SCT flash on the honda, but i believe its just for stangs. Could be wrong though. So, any suggestions is always welcomed. Buy a cat and replace it now, or I can wait a long time and have it done later.

X02

Also, my stang is registered in a place that has no emissions. I can do that for my honda as well, if that means an easier fix.

ezone

I meant WOT/Redline performance. Does it have all the power it should when you floor it through 1st and 2nd gears-- or is the exhaust restricted-- was the only question.
If it runs like it should, I'd keep driving until I could afford the cat.


Could have been the mileage, could have been the sensor.
Doesn't matter much now.
I'd still do the checks I described earlier anyway....


At any rate, before your next emissions test I assume you will need a cat.
Linky: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...5=EXHAUST+PIPE

Items #4, 6, 7, 14, 16, 17 18, 27, 28. Various amounts of each.
Cat, shields, bolts, nuts, gaskets, etc.

X02

Ok. Besides exhaust leakage, how would you check for misfires and fuel control by PCM?

ezone

Lunch break, only got a minute. Did not peruse entire thread before answering.


Scanner datalist, and how the car runs.

Most of this is just to ensure the cat won't be ruined right away.

(I'm assuming your cat died due to mileage and that bad O2 sensor problem.)


But exhaust leaks can cause a "false cat code" to set. Exhaust leaks can allow air to enter into the exhaust stream and cause sensor readings to be inaccurate. Fixing any leaks could cure a "false" cat code without the expense of a cat replacement.

X02

Ok. On the scan device from the auto store, everything was an ok, except for a N/A with the catalytic converter, which I think the car had been sitting for about an hour and cooled down. I think the O2 sensor is the problem. Do you recc putting the rag over the muffler to check for exhaust leaks? or is there a common place to look on these cars?

X02

Quick question. Is putting on an aftermarket performance exhaust system an option here? I've wondered about the cold air intake, catback exhaust systems. If this is an option, which ones do you recc, and how do they fair with gas mileage and such.

ezone

Um, no.
Your "N/A" tells me you got the list of OBD2 readiness monitors, these are what you look for being completed and passed -- prior to getting an emissions test done.

I meant an engine datalist. Maybe that code reader doesn't have that capability. The cheapest cheapo units don't.

You gotta understand here, I solve problems for a living. I don't make my money on "comebacks" and "do overs".
I have to be certain about what a car needs before the customer is sold the work. My work has to be guaranteed, so I do what I can to make sure my work will live.
Nope again.
It passed the OBD2 readiness monitor (and I assume since you didn't mention it that there are no codes set that are defined as O2 sensor related codes).
And you got a DENSO sensor now.
Not likely to be the issue at all.

A cat code (P0420) is never defined as "replace Oxygen sensors". They have a crapton of codes for themselves.

The P0420 code deals with the cat itself.
That would be one possible method.

Any exhaust leakage between the cylinder head and the cat needs to be corrected. By the time a significant leak is noticeable, I can usually smell raw exhaust, and one can usually hear the noise. A smoke machine could be used to pinpoint leakage if it is suspected but not easily located.

Cast iron manifolds are well known for cracking and leaking. Steel header tube type is much less prone to leaking.

I deal with 99.9% factory stuff.

I say none of that will gain you mileage and definitely won't solve the immediate issue with the cat code. Others are free to disagree.
It will make extra noise and cause you to exercise your foot on the loud pedal much more, that kills gas mileage.

ezone

Did you erase the codes and drive it to see how long it takes for the cat code to return?

X02

I think i meant to say that I think the previous 02 sensor was a problem. Once i put the denso on, the 02 codes went away. I did erase the codes, and the check engine light popped back on within a day. I havent read the codes yet, which is what I'm about to do. My question about the aftermarket exhaust came up because I see some systems with cats that are cheaper than buying a 786 dollar one.

ezone

Better do that first. No guesses.

Get Freeze Frame data if the code reader will give it.

X02

Whats your take on lacker thinner? Did some research, and some guy suggested a couple of things to clean the converter. Lacker thinner from a paint store, putting in a gallon of it when the car is on half a tank. taking off the converter and soaking it in laundry detergent for a day, cleaning it out as another solution. Sounds crazy, but wanted to get your opinion

ezone

So, what is the new code?
That new code, is its definition "lather, rinse, repeat"?







If you did any real research, you should be able to correctly spell "Lacquer".

Your "Some Guy" sounds like Scotty Kilmer.

Check the bobistheoilguy forums about Acetone.


I tend to agree with this opinion: "Look at your gas cap, fill cover and the are around it. If it says gas or gasoline, only pour gasoline in your tank. If it says "pour any old concoction in here", then try lacquer thinner or acetone."

ezone

Remember, I do this for a living. I don't make my money off of half-assed work.

X02

Yes sir!

ezone

Is it a P0420 code? Get under the car and shake/hit the area near the cat with your palm or a rubber mallet. Does the cat rattle (from inside, not the shields)?

If the element (guts) broke apart from overheating, you will never save it.








I actually have wondered if the washing could help a cat that has been "sooted".
I would never do that for a paying customer.


You can try anything you want. (MY car drives just fine.)

X02

Code is the same, P0420. Heres what I did on the way to Advanced auto. Punched the car during 1st and 2nd, car gets up just fine. Once at the store, one guy works for Honda as well, and i think like you said, he was leaning toward either a vaccum leak, exhaust leak. He also asked if I hear farting noises when revving. I popped the hood and revved it up from the throttle, and no farting noises. I think the manifold cover is rattling a lil, but thats the only noise i hear, a lil rattle tin sound. I hooked up the code reader and its the same code, actually it gives two codes detected, but the same code and the second P0240 is pending. Im going to put the car up and check the converter next to see if it rattles.

X02

Ok. got underneath the car. used my palm on the cat, grabbed the pipe and shook it a little, and I dont hear no rattling.

ezone

I'd put a cat on it.
Factory, or California CARB approved.

Super low mileage used part might be an option (check craigslist)?

X02

Will do. I'll have my mechanic check the manifold and exhaust for any leaks as well.