Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
10-08-2012
#31
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
Is it possible to remove the top cover without having to move out the PS pump and Alt belt?
I don't think I have ever tried to only do one part without the other out of the way.....it's only like 10 minutes anyway....with air tools. (I say 10 minutes, thinking about an hour for the whole t-belt job.)
I can do the timing belt job in my sleep, but can't answer your question. LOL
It is easier and faster for me to actually do the work than to try to figure out how to avoid doing the work.
The 12mm tools I mentioned were just for the PS pump.
10-08-2012
#33
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
no offense meant here, but from reading all of your previous threads, i have never heard of anybody in my life being so paranoid and **** about thier car, especially not a civic, stop worrying so much,
just use standard oil, no additives, and change it regularily, its fine,
either fix the leak or ignore the leak and check your oil regularily, but for the love of god, quit worrying so much, its just a car, a bucket of bolts,
if you want to fix it, pull the timing cover and replace every single possible seal/gasket in there, so that would be crank seal, cam seal, and pull the oil pump off and replace that o-ring also.....done
just use standard oil, no additives, and change it regularily, its fine,
either fix the leak or ignore the leak and check your oil regularily, but for the love of god, quit worrying so much, its just a car, a bucket of bolts,
if you want to fix it, pull the timing cover and replace every single possible seal/gasket in there, so that would be crank seal, cam seal, and pull the oil pump off and replace that o-ring also.....done
10-08-2012
#34
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Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
PS is the only one in the way of the upper timing belt cover, and I really can't tell you if it absolutely has to come off to get the cover off. (I THINK IT DOES have to come off)...
I don't think I have ever tried to only do one part without the other out of the way.....it's only like 10 minutes anyway....with air tools. (I say 10 minutes, thinking about an hour for the whole t-belt job.)
I can do the timing belt job in my sleep, but can't answer your question. LOL
It is easier and faster for me to actually do the work than to try to figure out how to avoid doing the work.
The 12mm tools I mentioned were just for the PS pump.
I don't think I have ever tried to only do one part without the other out of the way.....it's only like 10 minutes anyway....with air tools. (I say 10 minutes, thinking about an hour for the whole t-belt job.)
I can do the timing belt job in my sleep, but can't answer your question. LOL
It is easier and faster for me to actually do the work than to try to figure out how to avoid doing the work.
The 12mm tools I mentioned were just for the PS pump.
You mean valve gasket? Im hoping this is all, will have to watch it today and tomrw.
no offense meant here, but from reading all of your previous threads, i have never heard of anybody in my life being so paranoid and **** about thier car, especially not a civic, stop worrying so much,
just use standard oil, no additives, and change it regularily, its fine,
either fix the leak or ignore the leak and check your oil regularily, but for the love of god, quit worrying so much, its just a car, a bucket of bolts,
if you want to fix it, pull the timing cover and replace every single possible seal/gasket in there, so that would be crank seal, cam seal, and pull the oil pump off and replace that o-ring also.....done
just use standard oil, no additives, and change it regularily, its fine,
either fix the leak or ignore the leak and check your oil regularily, but for the love of god, quit worrying so much, its just a car, a bucket of bolts,
if you want to fix it, pull the timing cover and replace every single possible seal/gasket in there, so that would be crank seal, cam seal, and pull the oil pump off and replace that o-ring also.....done
Last edited by Civicnoobie; 10-08-2012 at 09:49 AM.
10-08-2012
#36
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
the valve cover gasket is not likely the problem, its most likely your oil pump or crank seal, it would take a MAJOR leak in your valve cover or cam seal for you to be seeing it dripping out the bottom, if you did have a major leak like that you would notice the oil level dropping daily, my money is on the oil pump or crank seal,
however its very easy to remove the valve cover and upper timing cover, so that would still be a good place to start, use a bright light to look down into the lower part after you remove the top cover, you do not need to remove the P/S pump assembly
however its very easy to remove the valve cover and upper timing cover, so that would still be a good place to start, use a bright light to look down into the lower part after you remove the top cover, you do not need to remove the P/S pump assembly
10-08-2012
#37
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the valve cover gasket is not likely the problem, its most likely your oil pump or crank seal, it would take a MAJOR leak in your valve cover or cam seal for you to be seeing it dripping out the bottom, if you did have a major leak like that you would notice the oil level dropping daily, my money is on the oil pump or crank seal,
however its very easy to remove the valve cover and upper timing cover, so that would still be a good place to start, use a bright light to look down into the lower part after you remove the top cover, you do not need to remove the P/S pump assembly
however its very easy to remove the valve cover and upper timing cover, so that would still be a good place to start, use a bright light to look down into the lower part after you remove the top cover, you do not need to remove the P/S pump assembly
I did some checking today and see no leaks from the valve gasket. Had the car running for awhile and couldnt see any oil flowing down anywhere. From the wheel well or underneath. I stuck my hand in the driver side well where it looks wet with oil and i look at my finger and its actually black sludge.
So i took some degreaser and sprayed it and cleaned it pretty good. Even jacking up the car its still very tough to get in that wheel well. Will monitor for the next day
So all i have to do to get the top timing cover off is, loosen the 5 valve cover bolts, pull up right side very little, undo the top timing cover 2 bolts and the top timing cover comes off?
Cause from what i see, is only 2 10mm bolts for the top timing cover.
Last edited by Civicnoobie; 10-08-2012 at 03:28 PM.
10-08-2012
#38
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
Top cover has 3 bolts: One on each side, and one below the cam sensor plug.
When you put it all back together, the top cover has to fit into its grooves or slots on each side, so it all sits flush and doesn't stick out. It can be tricky if the valve cover is still in the way.
You gotta wiggle, cuss, and hold your mouth juuuuuust right.
And make sure the valve cover gasket stays in its groove and doesn't come out of place before you bolt in down.
I hope to GOD you have someone available that has some mechanical experience, that can guide you along this journey, that will stop you before you do anything drastically wrong.
HTH
When you put it all back together, the top cover has to fit into its grooves or slots on each side, so it all sits flush and doesn't stick out. It can be tricky if the valve cover is still in the way.
You gotta wiggle, cuss, and hold your mouth juuuuuust right.
And make sure the valve cover gasket stays in its groove and doesn't come out of place before you bolt in down.
I hope to GOD you have someone available that has some mechanical experience, that can guide you along this journey, that will stop you before you do anything drastically wrong.
HTH
10-08-2012
#39
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Top cover has 3 bolts: One on each side, and one below the cam sensor plug.
When you put it all back together, the top cover has to fit into its grooves or slots on each side, so it all sits flush and doesn't stick out. It can be tricky if the valve cover is still in the way.
You gotta wiggle, cuss, and hold your mouth juuuuuust right.
And make sure the valve cover gasket stays in its groove and doesn't come out of place before you bolt in down.
I hope to GOD you have someone available that has some mechanical experience, that can guide you along this journey, that will stop you before you do anything drastically wrong.
HTH
When you put it all back together, the top cover has to fit into its grooves or slots on each side, so it all sits flush and doesn't stick out. It can be tricky if the valve cover is still in the way.
You gotta wiggle, cuss, and hold your mouth juuuuuust right.
And make sure the valve cover gasket stays in its groove and doesn't come out of place before you bolt in down.
I hope to GOD you have someone available that has some mechanical experience, that can guide you along this journey, that will stop you before you do anything drastically wrong.
HTH
Im not doing it alone and it will be on Wed cause no time today or tommorow but free Wed.
Lets say it is the cam or oil pump o-rings leaking, does the oil funnel down the side of the engine or splatter all over the timing belt?
As long as my timing belt isnt wet, then i will be less worried. I dont want to be driving around with a wet belt.
Last edited by Civicnoobie; 10-08-2012 at 06:43 PM.
10-08-2012
#40
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
I hate how Honda designed the car.
I have freekin hated Nissans' engineers for decades now. BMW and Audi are on that list too.
Seriously: Some engineers are far smarter than others.
It would be so much less work if you could just pop the top cover off without even having to touch let alone lift the right side of the valve cover.
I see the 3 bolts, if I just undid the bolts as is, im guessing the top cover wont even budge.
As long as my timing belt isnt wet, then i will be less worried. I dont want to be driving around with a wet belt.
10-08-2012
#41
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Nope. It is trapped by the lip on the valve cover.You can see that after you get it apart.
I bet it will be ok.
What im wanting to do wed is take the top cover off but valve cover on, see if any oil is in there, then run the car with the cover off and if the camseal or oil pump seal is leaking then i should be able to see it right there no? Cause thats where the leak would start. Taking it that the car still run with the top timing cover off.
10-08-2012
#42
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
LOL
So when you lift the right side of the valve cover, wont that break the bond on the middle part too? Cause it will have to move somewhat. What "bond"? It ain't like it's glued down.
About a half-inch is all I need.
You may just want to pull the whole valve cover off, it would be easier.
Cause when you go to seal it again, how the hell do you get the Honda bond in there if the cover is still on? I only lift one end of the valve cover about a half-inch.
You should be able to figure out what I do or don't do, using nothing more than that info.
If it doesn't leak when I'm done, it isn't wrong. Right? Right.
As long as the rubber gasket is pliable, they normally seal up ok.
Seriously? Wiping is THAT big of a deal? (Edit: Insert potty joke here)
You would have to study the designs and consider the effects of gravity, flow, and air movements.
Cam seal leak would be funneled behind and to the side of the timing covers, down the side of the block IIRC.
I don't think you will be able to see either area directly.
Bolt the valve cover back on to run it. Don't drop anything into the open timing belt area or you will be eating valves.
So when you lift the right side of the valve cover, wont that break the bond on the middle part too? Cause it will have to move somewhat.
Unless we're talking lifting the right side so little.
You may just want to pull the whole valve cover off, it would be easier.
Cause when you go to seal it again, how the hell do you get the Honda bond in there if the cover is still on?
You should be able to figure out what I do or don't do, using nothing more than that info.
If it doesn't leak when I'm done, it isn't wrong. Right? Right.
As long as the rubber gasket is pliable, they normally seal up ok.
and it looked to be a major pain in the *** cause you will have to wipe the oil off the edge or it wont seal properly.
I dont know how the oil is able to stay away from the timing belt.
Cam seal leak would be funneled behind and to the side of the timing covers, down the side of the block IIRC.
What im wanting to do wed is take the top cover off but valve cover on, see if any oil is in there, then run the car with the cover off and if the camseal or oil pump seal is leaking then i should be able to see it right there no?
Taking it that the car still run with the top timing cover off.
10-09-2012
#43
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If you cant see for camseal or crankshaft leak from the top timing cover, then i dont know how ill notice it.
And from what i remember, im almost certain you CAN get the top timing cover off with only having to remove the valve cover and powersteering.
Reason im making sure is cause i know the shop will try to say "no, it all has to come out, everything, front engine mount, side bracket, alternator, power steering."
My worry is, and youre going to hate me asking but do you think i should get another oil change? To make sure the lucas stop leak stuff came out. Im just worrie how much i was actually able to get out.
This is why im getting a second opinion on it tommorow cause the mech from sunday i dont trust for any diagnosing after he failed on 2 previous atempts. Like saying how i needed a new AC compressor bearing when all it was, was a serp belt needing tightening.
And from what i remember, im almost certain you CAN get the top timing cover off with only having to remove the valve cover and powersteering.
Reason im making sure is cause i know the shop will try to say "no, it all has to come out, everything, front engine mount, side bracket, alternator, power steering."
My worry is, and youre going to hate me asking but do you think i should get another oil change? To make sure the lucas stop leak stuff came out. Im just worrie how much i was actually able to get out.
This is why im getting a second opinion on it tommorow cause the mech from sunday i dont trust for any diagnosing after he failed on 2 previous atempts. Like saying how i needed a new AC compressor bearing when all it was, was a serp belt needing tightening.
LOL
What "bond"? It ain't like it's glued down.
About a half-inch is all I need.
You may just want to pull the whole valve cover off, it would be easier.
I only lift one end of the valve cover about a half-inch.
You should be able to figure out what I do or don't do, using nothing more than that info.
If it doesn't leak when I'm done, it isn't wrong. Right? Right.
As long as the rubber gasket is pliable, they normally seal up ok.
Seriously? Wiping is THAT big of a deal? (Edit: Insert potty joke here)
You would have to study the designs and consider the effects of gravity, flow, and air movements.
Cam seal leak would be funneled behind and to the side of the timing covers, down the side of the block IIRC.
I don't think you will be able to see either area directly.
Bolt the valve cover back on to run it. Don't drop anything into the open timing belt area or you will be eating valves.
What "bond"? It ain't like it's glued down.
About a half-inch is all I need.
You may just want to pull the whole valve cover off, it would be easier.
I only lift one end of the valve cover about a half-inch.
You should be able to figure out what I do or don't do, using nothing more than that info.
If it doesn't leak when I'm done, it isn't wrong. Right? Right.
As long as the rubber gasket is pliable, they normally seal up ok.
Seriously? Wiping is THAT big of a deal? (Edit: Insert potty joke here)
You would have to study the designs and consider the effects of gravity, flow, and air movements.
Cam seal leak would be funneled behind and to the side of the timing covers, down the side of the block IIRC.
I don't think you will be able to see either area directly.
Bolt the valve cover back on to run it. Don't drop anything into the open timing belt area or you will be eating valves.
Last edited by Civicnoobie; 10-09-2012 at 07:46 AM.
10-09-2012
#44
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
And from what i remember, im almost certain you CAN
I've done it literally hundreds of times and I can't remember if it will or not. LOL
My worry is, and youre going to hate me asking but do you think i should get another oil change?
cause the mech from sunday i dont trust
for any diagnosing after he failed on 2 previous atempts.
for any diagnosing after he failed on 2 previous atempts.
You know better and yet you did it anyway.
10-09-2012
#45
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
I'll set up a paypal account.
You just send me all of your money whenever you think you have a car problem.
You just send me all of your money whenever you think you have a car problem.
10-09-2012
#46
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Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
you don't have to remove the ps i just did my valves and that timing cover came off by just removing the valve cover i remember exactly because i tightened the valve cover down before i put the timing cover back and had to remove the valve cover again just to get it back in place. see for yourself https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ml#post1369160
Last edited by lowlife9; 10-09-2012 at 02:46 PM.
10-10-2012
#49
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LOL! you send all yer money to him? LOLOLOLOL!
10-10-2012
#50
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10-10-2012
#51
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
It took you two extra edits to spit all that out?
And why are you using my name in vain?
I don't have any control over YOUR car or YOUR problem.
I didn't design it
I didn't engineer it
I didn't build it
I didn't buy it
I didn't break it
I didn't wear it out
I didn't abuse it
I didn't total it
I didn't buy it with that salvage title
I didn't maintain it
I didn't ignore it
I didn't diagnose it
I didn't fix it
I didn't OCD on it
I didn't panic over it
I didn't receive any of your money
I can't even SEE it from here.
Did your mech put the O ring in behind the oil pump yet, or did he only put the cam seal in and send you down the road?
And why are you using my name in vain?
I don't have any control over YOUR car or YOUR problem.
I didn't design it
I didn't engineer it
I didn't build it
I didn't buy it
I didn't break it
I didn't wear it out
I didn't abuse it
I didn't total it
I didn't buy it with that salvage title
I didn't maintain it
I didn't ignore it
I didn't diagnose it
I didn't fix it
I didn't OCD on it
I didn't panic over it
I didn't receive any of your money
I can't even SEE it from here.
Did your mech put the O ring in behind the oil pump yet, or did he only put the cam seal in and send you down the road?
10-10-2012
#53
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i would trust my life (car) in you!
10-11-2012
#54
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Rep Power: 228 Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
When was the last time you cleaned/changed your pcv?
Better get that leak repaired before the car explodes.
Oil is flamable.
Better get that leak repaired before the car explodes.
Oil is flamable.
Last edited by 04 Honda Civic; 10-11-2012 at 03:48 AM.
10-11-2012
#55
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
there is always about a half liter left in your engine regardless of how long you let it drain, it will all NEVER come out!
if you have ever removed your valve cover you will see what im talking about, there is a good 250ml of oil trapped up there that can not drain or move while the engine is turned off,
i dont know why you are so worried about lifting up the valve cover, its so easy, remove the spark plug tubes, undo the 5 valve cover bolts and lift it up, its simple,
just make sure the gasket is still in place when you put it back down
10-11-2012
#56
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Leaking oil - was told to no longer use synthetic
I think it's time you posted your update to this thread, telling just how oil soaked (saturated) your timing belt is. (Or was. Whatever.)
And describe how you discovered exactly where all the oil goes after it comes out of the cam seal.
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