sicken04

im going to be taking my car (04 ex) this friday for the first long distance trip(6 hours at speedlimit) since ive gotten it. Along this road there are rather steephills so i was wondering how i take these do i just stay in 5th or do i go into 4th at a high rpms(and what rpms should i be aiming b4 going in 4th)

sorry if this is completly stupid but ive never driven manual on the highway ive gotten pretty good in city

scooty

You will have to double clutch and heel and toe the transmission into 4th or else it will stall out on the hill, locking the front wheels.

But seriously just leave it in 5th and don't worry about it. If you floor the gas and the car still looses speed then you know it's time to downshift. Not much experience driving a stick eh?

Oh and here is something fun to try, with the cruise control engaged pop the gear into neutral without touching the brakes or gas. Have fun!!

sicken04

about a week learning in city in a ram 50 and 1.5 months in civic so i still have some learning to do

mikey1

the only reason you would need to gear down is if the car starts losing too much speed going up the hills, if you are at least maintaining your speed then leave it in 5th

raymondxcho

Driving manual in the city is a lot more difficult than on the highway. Just watch the RPMs and feel the car as you attack those hills.

This is just my opinion but I think double clutching is obsolete nowadays. You only need to double clutch with tractors and older cars. As long as you blip the gas before downshifting also known as rev-match, you're good.

But unless those hills are ridiculously steep or you're dealing with traffic, I don't think downshifting will be necessary on the highway.

mikey1

i think the double clutching comment was a joke

scooty

Yes most manual transmissions have synchronized gears so there is no need to double clutch. BUT you can save your synchros some wear if you double clutch while downshifting especially if you're going down more than one gear. And you can't simply blip the throttle, since the clutch would still be powering the main shaft.

Here is the proper technique, try it, it's fun:

Clutch in, shift to neutral, release clutch, blip throttle to correct rpm for desired gear, clutch back in, shift to lower gear, clutch out.

If you do this correctly you can just feel the shifter slip into gear like butter with absolutely no bucking sensation. It's such a great feeling to downshift 2 gears from like 2000 rpm to 4500 and feel the car pull smoothly with no jerkiness. You will impress you passengers and keep the transmission happy.

This also comes in handy when you want to drive like a grand ma and skip gears while up-shifting to save gas. You'll cause extra wear on the synchros if you don't double clutch while doing this.

raymondxcho

Wow, I learn something new everyday.

matthewGA

If you can drive stick in the city, you'll be fine on the highway. Once you're in 5th gear it's basically the same as driving an automatic unless you are on a very steep hill. Keep it at 55-60MPH and you should be good.

And if you do have an issue and stall out or whatever, don't worry about it. It happens. The drivers behind you will get over it.

If you find a long down-hill run, you can pop it into neutral and coast. That's the easiest advantage of a manual transmission in regards to getting better fuel economy. It adds up on a long drive.

raymondxcho

Actually, you save gas by coasting in gear. Your engine is idling coasting in neutral which means it burns fuel. When you coast in gear, the wheels turn the engine so it doesn't burn any fuel.

Not to mention coasting in neutral down-hill is dangerous and not smart and can cause your brakes to overheat.

Just fyi, automatics can pop it into neutral and coast too.

tweav88

Okay i just have to be a smart-*** here, so please excuse me, but why would your brakes overheat? Unless your one of those idiots that constantly ride them down a hill, in that case, it's your own fault! If your on the high way and it is hilly, there is no problem coasting in neutral, just make sure when you do have to put it back in gear, you blip the throttle to get the rpms up close to where they would be anyway.

And just because it's in gear and turning doesnt mean the fuel is cut off, its still burning just as much fuel as in neutral, if not a little more, its just adding resistance when you could be gaining speed down hill if you were in neutral.

matthewGA

Respectfully dissagree on most of this...

1. Coasting in gear is probably safer because you can react somewhat quicker, but burns as much gas as when you're idling but increases rolling resitance since the wheels are turning the motor, thus you lose momentum more quickly, thus your overall fuel economy goes down.
2. I think that coasting in neutral is safe because I can quickly enough shift. But have you heard about dudes turning the engine completely off when coasting? That's dangerous.
3. Automatics have neutral too, of course. You can pop in and out, but I've always thought of them as more fragile and I've wondered if it could eventually damage it.

scooty

A lot of misinformation over here.

First and foremost these cars have fuel cut-off. Coasting in gear switches the fuel injectors off so there is no fuel consumption, as opposed to just leaving the car in neutral and idling.

Secondly, depending on the grade of the incline/decline, coasting downhill can over heat the brakes very easily if you are in a situation where you can not or do not want to exceed a certain speed due to either traffic or road conditions. In this case leaving the car in the appropriated gear utilizes engine braking and takes some of the load off the brakes.

So there you have it. There are 2 opposing interactions over here. Coasting in gear saves gas because the injectors are cut-off, BUT because of rotational friction in the engine there is a braking force slowing the car down.

It is always advisable when traveling down several miles of a lengthy decline to leave the car in gear to keep the brakes cool. If you have ever experienced brake fade while driving down a mountain you know what I'm talking about. It's not about being dumb enough to ride the brakes and overheating them. Sometime you have no choice but to use brakes for a prolonged period.

In these instances it's helpful to leave the car in gear and take some of the strain away from the brakes.

matthewGA

I understand that brakes can over heat over several miles of use. I think we're talking about different things. If you're descending a mountain then brake over heat is a real concern and you wouldn't want to coast in neutral. In a relatively intense driving situation like that, safety takes priority over fuel economy.*

I'm talking about highway driving on a more gentle, less intense up-and-down. Main roads or backroads is where I will coast in neutral. Of course traffic and safety et al are concerns. You don't coast if you can't do it safely.*

Now, another question: can letting momentum/gravity turn your engine for you when coasting in gear cause damage to the drive or tranny or elsewhere? It seems like something might not get lubricated properly but I wouldn't know for sure.*

Either way, I still think the rotational friction causing more rapid deceleration is a bigger deal than the engine still using some gas when coasting in neutral. Also, to optimize coasting in gear, you'd shift to 5th, so you actually have more steps in getting back into your driving gear than if you coast in neutral. By that logic, coasting in neutral is safer than in gear in regards to reaction time.*

raymondxcho

Yeah, I've heard of people completely shutting off their engines to save gas. I guess they don't know that most modern cars' engines cut off fuel when coasting in gear. That's just ignorance and carelessness.

And to answer your question, no, it doesn't cause damage. The energy travels through the same components. When accelerating, the energy goes from engine to tranny. When coasting in gear, the energy travels from tranny to engine.

relaxdkid

I drive about 80 miles round trip everyday to work with a manual (04LX). I love it on the open road but hate it during city driving. There is one particular hill that I put the car in neutral and cost down (it's less than a mile) and I can reach about 70 - 75 mph. I let inertia slow me down to normal cruising speed once I reach the bottom of the hill. However, since it is during commuter traffic and most of those people are traveling faster than that anyways (Speed limit set at 60mph). When I do put it back into gear, I go strait for 5th as I am traveling at a speed that would make sense to have the car in. I also feel that down shifting should be something done as a last resort as it is cheaper to replace brakes and rotors than to replace the clutch or tran. With that said, I've been told by many mechanics (friends and family members) that skipping gears is not something that should be done. As someone mentioned before, it will mess with the synchros. Currently, by keeping to the speed limit (+5 mph over), I am getting 415 miles per tank (I also only drive highway). Good luck on your trip. Your *** will probably start hurting first before your leg gets tired from shifting!

matthewGA

Okay, so I had a long drive home yesterday, almost all highway, and I've been really considering the new information about fuel injector cutoff. Now I'm thinking that it probably is better to coast in gear than just idle. You can basically leave it in 5th as you come up to a stop light, there's realistically very little rolling resistance and if there is it doesn't matter because you don't need to maximize your rolling distance. And if you have a down-hill stretch on the highway just take your foot off the gas and the car does the fuel-economy-maximizing process of cutting fuel by itself, and you can pick it up as soon as you want just by pressing the gas again.

So now I'm taking corners in gear with no accelerator to maintain a velocity and cut fuel, then I can accelerate quicker as I come out of the turn because I'm already in gear. Just have to down shift as you go into the turn.

Holy crap. What does that put your overall fuel economy at? I'm in a 7th gen and I averaged 29-31 all-highway to Orlando and back, but the car was loaded with luggage and family. I've been worried that my economy is slipping and I'm missing some basic maintenance or something.

johndeerebones

I am getting anywhere between 29 and 35 mpg regularly. If someone says they got 40 or something on a 7th gen they are blowing smoke or they have changed tire sizes and not the speedo, bad calculations etc. If that is a perfect tank full it is 13 gallons, so 415/13 = 31.92xxxxxx mpg. I can get more than that on a tank, but it runs the cooling fuel down way past the in tank pump, more than that I really don't think the chance of running out of gas on the road is worth the chance

matthewGA

I calculated 34.x on a tank about a year ago but I've never gotten quite that high again. It's hard to be sure about your calculations ... I always just take the number of miles since the last fill-up (odometer reading for trip A) divided by the number of gallons I just put in. This would work if every fill-up was "perfect" or at least equal, but how often could that occur?

mikey1

calculated gas mileage can never be exact, speedo's are rarely ever 100% accurate, i would say +/- a good 5%

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

calculated mpg can be exact if you fill it up consistently at the same point, from empty to full.

mikey1

not if your speedo is reading incorrect, the mpg calculation would not be accurate because your odometer reading would not be accurate

johndeerebones

It would be consistent though. The best way is to fill up a bunch of times and average the mileage over like 40 or 50 gallons, not one tank at a time. I use my gps, my speedo is off a mph or two, with stock tires. Unless it is off quite a bit it won't effect it a ton. The big differences are when you change tire sizes quit a bit, or change gauges, change trans, etc. I had a Jeep TJ that had 33s and the stock speedo gear when I got it. Stock tire was like a 27 or 28 (it had the big ones when I bought it), the mpg figured around 10 on it. With the right speedo gear for the tire size it went to 14.something, almost 15. Haven't looked on the app store, but I wouldn't be suprised if iphones and andoid had apps for speed figuring, they have gps too.

lame05

I don't know what plant you civic came from but I only have a 11.9 gallon tank and I do get 40 mpg

johndeerebones

Thought it was 12.9, doesn't really matter though for mileage figures. I figure from the pump gallons, not what my tank does or doesn't have... Anyway, no way unless you are driving slow speed limits with a manny or something. Anything over 65 and my mileage drops off fast. I usually run 73-75 mostly highway and barely sqweek between 31-32 avg.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

my way back from canada, was with headlights illuminating the skies (trunk full of stuff) and stock steel wheels (they start rolling and don't wanna stop anymore) and the speed limit up north was 65 so i came all the way at 70 MPH, eventual 75.
with head gasket blown, it made 44MPG. the extraweight simply made it not want to stop - better gas mileage. Yes, i keep my foot as far away from the throttle as i can - it's not a carb car where the vacuum sucks out the fuel from the reservoir.

yes, it can get 40+ MPG, just need to keep the momentum as much as you can. no braking at corners (heck, most corners i can stomp on the gas - speed limits are too slow for what the car can do! and in corners the radar does not catch you! - i don't hear the tires screeching either - again i have no stock suspension.)

but yeah. use the momentum. that's how these cars with small engines gets happy and delivers MPG. and are fast. only if you know how to use it.

ah, i use GPS too. speedo right on.

BIGGS000

There's some good stuff in here. I never would have thought that coasting in gear could be better; I had no idea there was an injection cutoff. Also, maybe I'll start matching RPMs like you would with no servos. I didn't think much about that one. Now, I definitely got over 40 MPG when I lived in Hawaii. There was two stop lights on my way to work. About a mile after the first stop light I'd put the car in neutral and ride down the hill. If I hit the second light green I would ride the momentum until about 3/4 mile away from my parking lot. Then I'd finally use the gas pedal again. On multiple occasions I got 43-44 MPG. Nowadays I live in NY and get 30-34 MPG. Still pretty good!

Slowfosho

Isn't coasting in gear like engine braking? I was told by a transmission rebuilder that it puts more wear on the clutch and tranny. I, personally, would rather spend a bit more money on gas if it means longer tranny/clutch life.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

by 1/2 a mile, maybe?
they are made to take it.