Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

So with the key ON I'm not getting any voltage to the black/yellow wire of the alternator harness. Does it mean there is a break in the wire? The car battery isn't charging and the battery lamp is on. Battery is good.

ezone

What is the car? This is posted under 7th gen.

For a 97, the blk/yel comes from fuse #15 -- underdash fusebox, 7.5 amp, hot in RUN and START

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

Yeah it's actually for an 05 element. I checked fuse #4 for it, it looks good. Any other ideas? I'm having a hard time finding a honda shop manual in pdf for it. Maybe somebody has one.

ezone

Where is that "smack in the forehead" guy?

Congratulations, you are the first person to earn my F'n Idiot tag today. Care to guess why?

You must assume that "All cars have 4 wheels, therefore they are all the same."


Side note: If you really think this way, then you may be qualified for a job as a service manager in a car dealership with multiple car lines.
(Smell that? That was sarcasm.)


You need Hondas ETM (electrical troubleshooting manual), which is the wiring diagram book.

Fuse #4 looks correct......Sounds like you have an open circuit between fuse #4 in the dash fusebox, and the alt harness plug.

Maybe you just redeemed yourself a bit. now you just get a small idiot tag.

Is there B+ on both sides of the fuse? Make sure of this before going farther.

Assuming there is B+ at the fuse......
My next steps would be to see if other items on the same power feed are getting supplied with B+, this would help locate the break. I only go check the easiest things to reach, I certainly won't go to a lot of time and trouble to check each item unless I don't find what I expect to see. (Start with the the most likely area here?)

(These are all shown as blk/yel wire at each connector)

Cruise actuator (terminal #6) and/or main switch (#1) are one branch of the circuit,

AF heater relay, rear O2 sensor, ELD, and EVAP CVS valve are all on a branch

CMP sensor, EVAP Purge valve, and alternator are all on a branch.

Alt wire has one more connector in the harness, C102.
6 wire connector, gray.
Looks like (staring at a grainy photo) it is under the front, looking up between the front end plastic and the subframe, just above the ATF cooler hose, maybe about 4-6 inches away from the ATF filter---toward the drivers side, about roughly even with the motor mount bracket on the subframe.

If there is B+ at the purge solenoid and CMP sensor, I'd probably start my digging in this C102 connector area.

A wire that got the insulation nicked 2 years ago could be ripe for rotting through the copper right about now, here in the rust belt.

HTH

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

Actually, it's typical for hondas to have the black/yellow wire going from igni to alternator, so it was a reasonable guess. Any way, it was a bad #4 fuse. I miss-checked it in dim light and thought it was good. Now the wire gets 12v.

After the fuse was replaced the battery light turned off but now it's back on. Indifferent of the light, sometimes the alternator charges the battery (~14.5 volts with engine on) and sometimes not (Starts dropping below 13.00v at .1 every 5 seconds with engine on)

The belt is giving a slight burning smell but it looks good and the tensioner is providing proper tension. Would an alternator oscillate between working and not working? There is a new whining noise but it's difficult to locate without a stethascope. Would an alternator whine? Maybe the brushes are worn?

I should note that this problem started right after she took it to Honda for an oil change. It could be a coincidence.

ezone

Good call on the wire color/function, but I still want to smack a forehead.

Yes, they can whine, howl ,and be pretty darn loud about it at times. Yes they can oscillate or pulse the output voltage. And stink like an electrical fire.

Get it howling consistently. Disconnect the 4(?) wire plug from the alt so it can't charge, see if the noise quits.

In most situations, I would probably replace the alt if that made the noise go away. Probably ought to make sure something on the control side isn't causing or requesting the wrong voltage though, but I'd bank on just a bad alt.

Wait up...it stinks? It's bad.


I'd recommend OEM parts, as usual.
06311-RAA-505RM, (this is a reman).
I show it as $251 USD retail. Plus a core charge.


HTH

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, the smell and sound go away with the 4-prong cable unplugged. The light turns off as well, but when I put the cable back in the light turns back on. This time, in both cases, the alternator did not charge the battery.

When her starter wasn't working, I replaced the brushes with a brush kit. Do you think I should just put a new brush kit in it? I doubt it's a voltage regulator problem.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

most newer hondas will cut alternator power under certain conditions, so you could see voltage going between 12v and 14v quite a bit, but at idle it should always be 14v.

ezone

Fine, but the idiot light will NEVER be on during these times when the charging is intentionally reduced or lowered.

OP has the idiot light on.


No. Worn out brushes usually just limit or reduce the amount of amperage it can charge. It won't make the regulator howl.
The regulator is what is howls, I believe.
The regulator controls the idiot light. If it is not charging, the light is on. If it is unplugged, it cannot turn on the light.

Between the howl and the smell, I would assume it has a diode shorted.
Who cares?
I don't ever tear into alternators anymore, I just replace them.
Fast and simple for me, rebuilding is NOT worth my time (for a customer, at shop labor rates).

(When the original Delco-Remy starter on my Buick got slow and nearly quit on me, I put a set of brushes in it too. All of $4 and it was fixed for the time being. This was only about 2 years ago.)

Just put an alternator in it.
(Don't use cheapo parts store units unless you don't mind swapping it out every so often.)

HTH

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

The brushes have a long life to them still. A shame because it only has 70k on it. I rebuild the starter at 60k. They don't make Honda's like they used to I hesitate to say. My civic alternator and starter are still working at 155k.

I'm going to try a Napa rebuild starter simply because I'm disipointed with the stock one. It should not have failed, nor the starter. Also I'm curious how long the rebuilt ones last.

I will post up in a couple days on weather the fix was successful.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

just fyi, my oem alt lasted 2 yrs. my napa is going on 8 yrs no problems other than that stupid wingnut coming loose and almost falling out lol. in the auto parts world, napa is some of the best. and i wasnt exactly nice to the napa either until the last couple years. used to have a big stereo system with amps and subs, and used lots of accessories at the same time. 60 amp isnt much to play around with. it doesnt help that the alt is so close to the engine either.

ezone

Sounds like they aren't/weren't using "white box, made in China" parts, or A-1Cardone remans like some other parts stores.

At any rate, the track record of so much aftermarket stuff just isn't great. I've seen bad remans from OE sources too, but much fewer.

Side note, Mazda uses A-1Cardone reman water pumps for some engines that I do often enough to remember, and they really suck.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

im usually very iffy about using aftermarket parts, but sometimes they turn out to be better than oem. moog parts for example. i snapped those oem endlinks like twigs lol. the moogs have been holding great for a few yrs but they are also twice the thickness of stock. same goes for oem shocks being really weak on these cars. but when it comes to stuff like sensors, thermostat, caps, etc no way would i ever get a generic part. those things look and work like crap.

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

Okay, looks like it fixed it. It's keeping the battery at a steady 14.4v. But why did the fuse get blown? Did the voltage regulator do that through the blk/yel wire?

Any way, thanks for the help from both of you. I wouldn't have been confident without your feed backs.

ezone

Most likely.