taltho

Is this similar to what your talking about?
http://www.amazon.com/Splitfire-Inc-...ar=1&carId=001

taltho

OK, I just discovered that the split fire plug in my last post is nothing compared to the firestorm plug.

try this http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo...orm_Spark_Plug
This is the real deal, a big difference from the conventional plug.
The reason this is important is that while running ethanol as fuel you will most likely want a high performance plug like this.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yeah the second link, they can handle extreme lean burn conditions. you dont even need a cat to pass emissions testing, since you are burning a fraction of the gas you normally would. Robert still holds the patent on it for a few more yrs but nobody will build them (scared). there are so many other insider stories like this you cant imagine. and even without any ecu reprogram, the firestorm can still provide gains and lifetime service in any car today.

johndeerebones

I know I'm old fashioned to start off. I know higher compression makes the same power with it, its the same with gasoline. It would be viable with a cheaper price. Still will stick with my comments though. Doesn't matter what the implications are when it is only a 10% price difference in America and it makes worse mileage it doesn't matter if a different engine is used or whatever, the American consumer won't pay a premium to get less. No matter the implications. Energy independence is definately a prime need, but don't think ethanol will get it.... If a gallon of gas is 10.00 and ethanol is 3.00 a gallon sure it would go over with flying colors. As it stands though it will continue to go over like a turd in the punch bowl. It might be working out in a few REGIONAL places, but as a whole it is faultering miserably in America.
I am holding out for electric cars as far as economy. With Gearbox there. Way less maintenance cost and cheap operating too. As said, the powers that be will let it happen though, when they are getting money from it! This is America though, as long as their if fuel to be had they will sale it. I a sucker for a couple thousand horses of Detroit muscle! Love my econo box, but a turbo'd Honda won't ever be close to a 7000 horsepower funny car.... Be careful making it yourself though. I had a Powerstroke and thought of making my own bio when fuel prices went through the roof. a few problems. Restaurants don't want to give anyone their waste veggie oil now, there is waste to get rid off(not sure on ethanol production for that), and you MUST pay your road taxes if you make your own fuel. The government will fine the crap out of you if not and who knows might even lock you up. It would take a while to make the 8 or 10 grand worth of fines worth a couple dollars per gallon savings.....

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Hahaha!
Johndeerebones,
We have been in the forum long enough enough to respect each other, I would guess.
I was just commenting that less power is not accurate, is all

johndeerebones

, not mad at all we are learners here. Open minded discussions are educational. Have to admit I am a knowledge addict. I crave to know more about everything..., getting defensive doesn't help anyone learn... You would be right thinking of it. It is the same idea as race fuel, high octane. Only a high compression gasser on low octane fuel would grenade the engine, if the fuel maps are different any way gas in an ethanol engine would just not run worth a crap right?

IF they can get ethanol down to where it is cost effective, absolutely it would be a viable alternative. The first step is CORN ethanol is not the answer. Ethanol yield per bushel of corn is not efficient enough. The gov't is holding back progress on this topic.

But as far as power apples to oranges sure. I am meaning apples to apples.... True flex fuel engines try to compensate for the differences by sampling the fuel to know what the octane content is and changing fuelng rates for it. PRE flex vehicles can't do this. The alcohol content of the E85 fuel eats the fuel system of older vehicles and the injectors and fuel system are not even capable of putting out enough fuel for E85. To put it in perspective for the OP. 15% blends of ethanol are OK to put in a pre flex vehicle, but anything higher than that it will actually damage you car and it won't run worth a crap either....

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

the potential for electric cars is huge if companies would start growing ***** and actually putting the available technology in mass produced models and getting people in them. once you drive electric, you will NEVER go back to gas. GM had an amazing vision over 10 yrs ago and if they improved on those older technologies, you would have an electric that goes at least 500 miles per charge, only needs to be plugged in once a week, and has 200+whp today. something or someone is still holding them back, making electrics look like a joke because of the limited range. the GM EV1 from 1996 had better technology than any electric or hybrid on the market today. doesnt anyone find that strange?

Shift-E

I do and don't find that strange.
Do because it's not right.
Don't because we live in a capitalist society.

Also, without oil, what reason could they have to enter the middle east?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yeah i mean i do feel a tiny bit bad for all the auto shops that will be twiddling their thumbs waiting for business (they would only have brakes, suspension, and tires to fix - no engine/trans/exhaust or any general maint items) and the oil companies that would be forced out of business. but i think those are small losses for progress.

Shift-E

well put

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

and its not like they will be completely bankrupt, the oil companies will only make millions instead of billions, since a vast amount of oil is still used for non-car related purposes. parts suppliers and mechanics tend to lose the most because there are simply very few parts to an electric car that require actual fixing or maint done to them. the electric motor is a lifetime part with no real service requirements, the batteries may need to be reconditioned for $1k every 10 yrs, and possibly some misc parts under hood like electric power units and heat pumps may need to be replaced. but overall if you were to bring an electric in for a tuneup, they would fill the washer fluid and say youre done.

and aside from the awesomeness of the electrical aspects, there is also the crazy low drag coefficient. and electric motors dont make much noise. you can basically floor the car and not hear a sound, not even wind noise because the car is so aerodynamic. not to mention hundreds of modding ideas im already thinking about lol. there is always room for improvement.

sage10

How do you start a new post??

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

first find the forum you want to post in, then there should be a button for starting a new thread.

1. go to https://www.civicforums.com/forums/

2. click on the forum you want

3. click the "new thread" button

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

they will be getting much more money reviving or replacing batteries in a few years :P

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

most packs now have a 10 yr warranty and usually do not fail early. after that, its only around $1k for an independent company to change out the bad cells and make it like new for at least another 5 yrs ($200 per year or less). to me its well worth it and a ton cheaper than paying for gas and engine repairs. and i imagine battery tech will only improve as the years go by.

taltho

I wouldn't feel too bad for them. If they can't handle progress that will benefit their family's and them selves then they are a much bigger pare of the problem -- not a part of the solution.
We all need to be able to adapt to change, we can't be so greedy that we keep ourselves in the dark just so some can make a few extra bucks. If we truly want a better world we all need to be willing to make some sacrifices.

I also love learning as someone said here (sorry I forget who, I'm too busy to find everything said in-order to quote) I've enjoyed the contradiction in this thred, its caused me to consider allot of things that I may have otherwise passed by. So all I can say is thank you to people like sdaidoji and johndeerbones. You guys have helped me considerably, I love to see the other side of things, it makes me more secure and sound in my approach.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

does this mean youre doing an electric conversion instead of ethanol? lol. do you hang out at ecomodder.com at all?

Shift-E

That's kinda a touchy subject though. The reason why new, better, technologies that require less maintenance aren't introduced is to keep these people employed. If good electric cars were being manufactured, then these people would see no money, which affects not only them but the country as a whole since cash flow drops dramatically. It throws off a countries economy like crazy if a whack load of jobs (just imagine the number of garages there are out there) were just terminated because they're obsolete.

Like old computers being thrown away. Even though they have usable technologies, they aren't practical. Sure the mechanics could still work on older cars, but how long would those last if good electrics were being made?

I'm not saying I support it, it's just the sad truth.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

altho, look at what happened in the last few yrs to all the manufacturing jobs and this is during a time when people were buying gas cars like crazy.

taltho

I've checked it out. Although I did find some very interesting things, I only have so much time to spent on the net. I don't work on the computer so my time is limited. I did bookmark it though.

As the old cars fizzle out and the new take there place the people working in the shops will naturaly migrate to new lines of work; the best among them will work on the new class of classics -- the old internals as they may be known.

kbook

Ethanol went EV : )

Well, this is an interesting topic. If i live in CA, I will try the NGV civic. NGV is cheaper than gasoline except that one tank will last approx. 180 something miles. (7.8 gallon equivalency x 26 mpg combined).

GM Volt is very nice also except that when you run on the pure gasoline it's 33 mpg. First, I thought that using the engine to generate electricity to drive a motor like Volt or the diesel train might give you more than current average. Apparently, even my CR-V can do 34-35 mpg on highway from Detroit to Chicago (due to lots of downhills i believe) but when i drove back it just sucked the gas like crazy (28 mpg for driving back : P )

I am very interested in the electric modding however it will take too much time. It 's really a nice project though. But, I might choose to do the K20 or K24 instead ei ei.

Good news for me is that my wife postponed a plan to buy a new car for now so I will drive my silvia opps... silver Civic for a while.

taltho

Maybe I should rename the thread to, "alternative vehicle propulsion ideas, with some blame on the corporation/government/auto industries". LOL

I sure plan on using ethanol; I'm always glad to hear about other alternative methods besides ethanol. Although, I do believe that there are better methods out there than ethanol.

I'm still looking for an example of someone running a civic on ethanol. So far I've found hummers, Dodge durangos, Mercedes, Chevy, and a crv, all have gone over 80,000 miles and run fine. So I'm sure my civic will work great with a conversion kit. Give me a few months and I'll let you all know what happens...

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

no english version, sorry.
flex fuel civic:
http://quatrorodas.abril.com.br/carr...o_209972.shtml

budget-kid

If you have 20 min, please whatch mighty car mods. Thes aussie guys work with haltech ECU--- parts, etc and explain IN TOTALLITY the benefits and downs sides of petrol vs E85.