Juggernaut01EX

Ok, well I'm sure some of you will give me the noob speech of the go search it speech, but no one seems to ever really answer the question.

The D17A2 engine design seems to have some major issues when it comes to responding well to bolt on upgrades. People talking about adding i/h/e and are lucky to get 8-10whp.

I have found a lot of threads of people complaining about the ECU being crap and the intake manifold being plastic. Is there something or multiple things that cause this engine platform to suck so badly. Sounds like if you want any hp out of this engine you either boost it or swap it.

Just looking to find out more of an in depth justification as to why the D17A2 is considered such a lost cause. Any info on where the faults are and if there is anything that can be done to fix the issues vs. just swapping engines.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

The D17A2 is not a platform to make good speed with, sure you can build it up to get some horsepower, but bottom line, it's an economical car, not a speedster

Intake, header, and exhaust will only free up so much hp.

The D17A2 does not suck. It's just ment for another purpose.
It's like trying to squeeze lemon juice out of an orange, you can get close results with the right additives, but it's still OJ

Juggernaut01EX

Thanks for the responce, I understand what your saying, and honestly Im not looking to build a race car. More or less, all I keep hearing on the forums is that the D17A2 is horrible for hp gains, and that is does not respond as well as past civic engines have. Ok, I get that but why?
Is the ECU one of the main issues, because the car is ment to be more economical is the ECU just that restrictive that you can't gain the hp people want to see. Would a EMS not help with this issue? I also see a lot of people throwing around HP numbers, all I can assume is that someone has actually/properly dynoed their car.
I guess I have been looking to find out if somes knows where the hold up is in this engine, besides just saying its a lost cause because.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

The engine block itself is not designed to withstand much power, pressure, PSI, etc...

Also, the internals of the engine are not designed to withstand that much power, as you can probably see from many threads, those who build on this engine has to replace almost all the internals.

I'm not sure on the ECU part, but I doubt chipping your engine will help increase anything, maybe max speed, but thats about it.

Besides, our VTEC's are the crappiest in the 7th gen. Most all other cars have VTEC kick in at >5500 RPM, our VTEC (Economical) kicks in at around 2500~3000RPM to give us a little faster 35~70mph speed

What are you trying to do to your car anyways?
Adding a header,intake, and exhaust wont do anything except make your car sound nicer

Juggernaut01EX

I was just looking to lightly upgrade my car, Im not a racer nor do I have the time to fully build up an engine. Just wanted something I could work on, do some bolt on upgrades and have some fun with. Guess I can still do all the work but I wont get the results.
My mind is blown, probably just as much as everyone else out there with this engine, that these things are so resistant to bolt on parts. i/h/e if your lucky 10 whp, really, i mean how the hell does it not allow for more hp gain? Is it because of the way this engine is put together, like you said with the engine block just not being able to handle anything extra across the board so even if you do put some performance on it its just wasted effort.
Rough, guess I picked the wrong year to have some fun with a civic.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Lol,
Like i said before in other posts, bolt on upgrades, such as intake, header, exhaust will only free up some of the airflow that's restricted by the stock equipment on our civics

Engine will stay exactly the same, producing the same amount of energy, to make it produce more HP, you need to modify the engine, or replace it with a better one. Then the increase in airflow will help the engine perform that much better.

If you want, you can just do what i did recently, I just stuck on a short ram intake. It sound sooo much better, and i "feel" it faster, but that's just in my mind.

Juggernaut01EX

I have seen some post from guys that are boosting, claimin 200+ hp with all stock engin internals and they are not blow it up either. I understand how turbos work, but wouldnt the guys putting turbos on this engine also see the resisitance until they upgrade the engine as well?

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Some people manage that if they're lucky

If you read this thread, you might learn a bit

maybe you might get lucky, but would you risk your car and life on it? I know I wouldnt

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Accordingly to bomerman19, the max you can get is by using a crower cam (can't remember if stage 1 or 3, i believe that was 1 - 400-500 bucks) and use the K-PRO EMS (around 1k...) and some I/E/H to get around 125 wheel HP (not crank, wheel).
beyond that, no can do.

HLC

the block doesnt suck, the crank doesnt suck. i know andy ran up to 300whp on stock internals for almost a year before he built it. you can get power out of the d17, but its turbo or nothing. bolt on wise, don't even waste your time.

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

Buy the stage one cam and bolt ons.

Juggernaut01EX

I have been hearing a lot of good feedback from other users of the crower stage 1 cam.

That is my plan over the next few months.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

I'm sure you can find someone selling a new used stage one cam on here for cheap. Look around.

shwoogie420

i had a turbo stock block d17 with a stage 3 crower cam making 280 driving around for months with no problem before i built it....but like HLC said its turbo or nothing.... everything else may make it sound good but just wasting your money

Juggernaut01EX

yeah I hear ya guys, but Im not sure that I need to tune out this particular car that much. Since Im using it for a daily driver and would like to keep some of the economical function that the D17 has. I just like being able to wrench on my car, and who knows next spring i might just say F it and boost it anyways.
Thanks for the feedback guys

PurpCivic

What turbo company are u with? And is it safe to run a turbo on an auto without melting your tranny ....,lol that's what I have been told about our car so just curious because I looking to boost mines by dec

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

for serious power, yes.
If the use of the car is not a HP monster, the stage 1 cam (no other things required, like retainer and springs nor EMS), and some bolt-ons, should get some additional ponies, just enough. Of course, jus' the cam is around 400 to 500 bucks, and add the bolt-ons, it will get to 1k easy for jus a few ponies. But you will likely have a more liveable engine (considering good maintenance ) and no hassles from the higher maintenance required from turbos.
All depends on what you will use the car, in the end.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

like a "friend" of mine said:
Statement: i want more power!
A: OK, put these spark plugs.
Answer: What are spark plugs?!?

The scariest part: he was being serious...

shwoogie420

i am using a precision sc-34....my car is not auto...i just swapped in the 04 cluster b/c it was blue and not red/orange... prob would swap a 5-speed in that thing or sell it and get a 5-speed though

PurpCivic

Yeah I know your isn't an auto but I was just wondering if it was safe but a guy quoted me 1800 tuned labor and turbo so I'm look at that's a sweet deal

shwoogie420

if he told you 1800 for the full turbo kit install and tune then screw go for it.. that is a good deal

PurpCivic

Since mine is an automatic u think the tranny would hold

shwoogie420

i dont think it will be good for alot of boost but like 7-9psi shouldnt be a problem...keep fresh honda atf in there... but i have no seen to many auto turbo em2 but im sure someone on here has found the limit of the automatic tranny...