Hondaguy89

First off, I know there are two sticky's about this topic. However, I am not looking to do anything crazy.

Is there any way to gain performance without boosting or spending boatloads of money? I have an 02 LX Coupe by the way.

I was looking into aftermarket parts online and most everything I was looking into are for the Si.

Some things that I think would be cool to do (that I was not able to find) would be:

1) Bigger Throttle Body
2) Bigger Intake Manifold
3) Camshaft
4) Headers

I also would like to do an SRI, cat-back exhaust, but those are obviously available. Basically I would like to upgrade the entire air path. I think something people often forget is that an air path is only as efficient as its most restrictive part. So in order to get real performance increase you need to upgrade all parts.

Is there any throttle bodies, or manifolds that we can swap from other engines that will provide performance increase for our engine? Any other ways to increase performance? I know a lot of people say the d17 is a dog to upgrade and can be touchy.

HLC

sorry to tell you, but the only way to gain significant power is to boost. adding i/h/e will net you, at the max, 10hp

best thing for you to do with a d17a1 is to swap the head to an a2 and gain vtec and the 10 extra hp that come with vtec for a total of ~108whp

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

just do the sri and exhaust for looks and sound. bigger tb and intake mani will just cause all sorts of problems (are there even parts like this available?) and bigger header will just slow the exhaust down and cause worse performance. our cam is already tuned to work best with the current engine setup.

baron340

iTrader: (4)

As you said, I/H/E is readily available. There are no intake manifolds that are mass produced. There is one guy that will still make them, but they are right around $1K. Your other option is to modify a d16y8 manifold, not easy to do and if you don't have an 01-02 LX/DX, engine management is required and I'm not convinced it will run with a stock ECU at all. K-pro is by far the best thing you could get if you hope to have N/A power. Also $1K. The stage 2 N/A cam has put up some good numbers as well. Just for reference, I have an LX, k-pro, SRI, y8 mani and nasty gross cheap header and exhaust and made 121 hp on a mustang dyno.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

We're trying other things currently.

http://www.d-series.org/forums/engin...iscussion.html

Hondaguy89

Where did you find the stage 2 N/A cam? Who makes them, I have only seen them for the Si? I would be plenty happy if I could get those numbers. Im not planning to go to the track or make it into a race car. I just want a bit more pep than what it currently has.

And Speedfoos, that is an awesome thread you have going there! Unfortunately it is a bit more than I am willing to do. Nevertheless, its really cool that you are going outside of the box and trying things like that. Good luck with your project, I hope it comes out nicely, and I will be watching!

EM2 Rookie

i find a bunch of good parts at procivic.com
http://www.procivic.com/

BJanzen

iTrader: (2)

Not true what so ever, our fuel map is rich. The stage 1 crower cam leans it out a little and is a very worthy mod.

Cam + i/h/e got a guy on 7thgenhonda 124 hp at a dyno. Considering our cars dyno at around 95ish hp, thats a pretty good gain.

BJanzen

iTrader: (2)

Crower makes the stage 2 cam, you can find them at dezod.com and quite a few other places. You need valves and retainers and a engine management system for the stage 2 or 3 cam. The stage 1 cam requires no tune fyi.

baron340

iTrader: (4)

Just for comparisons sake.. those numbers were made on a vtec without k-pro. With an LX, y8 intake mani, and k-pro I made 121 on a mustang dyno which is notorious for reading low.

BJanzen

iTrader: (2)

Good comparison

Whatd you have for a header/exhaust?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

autos are usually around 95whp stock, manuals are more like 110whp from past dynos ive seen around here.

baron340

iTrader: (4)

I had a cheap ebay header and the 3" exhaust from the turbo setup. I have since swapped to a 2.25" magnaflow exhaust. I would be willing to bet it's a little higher than that now, but who knows.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Since were throwing out numbers I made 107.7hp, 107tq with just IHE on my 01 LX manual, no tuning. (aem v2, OEM EX header and cat, EX DC TCS catback)

If your still looking for the stage 2 cam, I got one in my forsale thread, link in sig.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

best i made was 104 whp in ex auto with i/h/e/pulleys/pnp head/cam gear/ported tb/vafcii with tuning lol. but the compression was too high (200psi) and it blew up the gasket a year later. wasnt worth the trouble at all and swapping back to stock. i bet manual would do much better, but the auto robs too much hp. choose company wisely if you get head work done.

b0yg0tskill

theres a guy from turkey on honda-tech..i think...that did a 16y8 intake manifold onto the d17.

HLC

cool story bro.

ExistEvolution

aftermarket header increases hp and you lose low end

baron340

iTrader: (4)

Umm.. not necessarily. I gained power and torque across the entire power band. Please stop spouting information you don't know to be true.

mr22508

Spend a few hundred on a back up engine, do alot of research, and spend a few hundred more and bottle feed that B#@ch!!!!

ExistEvolution

clearly i did no say you lost torque, reread my statement. put two the same cars together (lets say em2 ex coupes) the one with factory manifold will get off the line faster then the one with header, this is low end speed, but... the one with the header will overall be faster. Think of it as back pressure and air flow.

so how bout you go do the math, and stop staring at the brochure for the product, and go flame someone else

baron340

iTrader: (4)

Ok bud.. first off.. think about who you are talking to.. I do know what I'm talking about. I've been there and done it. I've had 2 different headers, a full turbo setup and now back to a third different header. I work in a shop that customizes cars and has the only dyno within a hundred miles. I do have a knowledge of the difference between HP and torque. I've had my car on a dyno with and without a header. I picked up both HP and torque across the entire power band. So once again.. unless you've done it and know it to be true, stop spouting useless information.

ExistEvolution

i feel like i'm repeating myself far too much, recap: i never said you lost torque, however, you are correct you gained torque. And when you say you gained torque what rpm was it at when it dropped off? So, your increase in torque means you gained more so you can spin the gears longer. This is because you can push more air out, but creates less back pressure that you have to build up. Now if you have less space to fill you will have better low end speed but your top speed will be sacrificed cause there is restriction on how much you can push out due to a smaller passage. You understanding me now? or must i go on?

learn from example: run a honda without an exhaust system or manifold on it, see how quickly you can get off the line.

also for the record i don't care what you do in your daily life

baron340

iTrader: (4)

Ok lets do recap:

I'm telling you, that is a false bit of information that gets thrown around on forums all the time. Back pressure is also a bit of information that is false. The 'back pressure' of every single exhaust system in ANY car is local atmospheric pressure.. usually 14.7 psi. Back pressure has very very little to do with exhaust system performance. The important factor in an exhaust system is scavenging velocity. If you stick a big 3" pipe on a stock d17, you lose torque but gain horsepower. The torque loss is caused by the slow velocity of the exhaust.

You might want to come off of your high horse and try to listen to those who know what they're talking about. I don't claim to know everything, and I'm not trying to fight with you, just stop the spread of this false info for those who don't know any different.

P.S. I wasn't giving you my life details for the fun of it, simply giving you some credentials.

So.. I'm done now. Believe what you want..

BT2W

So after reading what every one has said... i still have no idea if i should put a after market header on my civic or not. This is my first import and i have no idea what im doing. so could i get some "helpful information?"

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

depends on the driving you do. as baron340 already stated, scavenging velocity is most important. throwing on a huge pipe header with no other mods will give you more hp at hi rpm, but at low rpm the velocity of the exhaust will go down and you may actually lose power. ive tried two "big pipe" headers HP and kamikaze, both lost torque on the dyno. i am now using a DC header which is very similar to the honda header with smaller pipes. this is because i usually go easy on the gas pedal and want faster response below 3-4k rpms. with smaller pipes, you get faster exhaust in the low end, but then poor flow at higher rpms. there is always a tradeoff. but i mainly went with the DC for looks, not performance. its basically the same as oem design. so if you normally dont race the car, just keep the oem header.

ExistEvolution

i think i've posted about this a while ago and gear box is right. Header on a small displacement motor kills it unless you have a supercharger or turbocharger that can push more air through =] (and yes i know you don't use a header with a turbo set up)

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Isnt manifold and headers used interchangeably? Even though I never heard of a turbo header lol

ExistEvolution

header is a performance part, does the same job as a manifold but is more thought out like equal runner length and lighter with better flow of a factory stock exhaust manifold. Factory exhaust manifold are not usually designed with the process of making a direct route of the exhaust gases smoothly, it just gets crammed in and eventually pushed out the tailpipe. Where as a header creates a smooth flowing path so the exuast gases escape in a nice timely manner to creat more power since the exhaust leaves the motor easier, but with our small engine cars we don't have a big issue with it since we still need the back pressure in order for our cars to be efficient daily driving cars, have a i blown your mind yet. I'm trying to explain it easily.

Also turbo'd cars don't use headers because the exhaust gas is routed to spin the turbine inside the turbo and then the turbine spins the compressor. those are called turbo manifolds. If you go to a performance shop and say you need a turbo header they might look at you funny but know what you mean.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

equal length runners are also important...