CanadaJimmy

I recently bought a used 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid with just under 140,000 km (87,000 miles) on the odometer.

I have read in a few places that Honda released an ECU software update for the 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid IMA that reduced the fuel economy in order to increase battery life. I was wondering, is there a way I can tell if this update was installed or not? Like a way of seeing the version number or something? The car has been taken to a Honda dealership a few times so it could have been updated then, but there is no info on that.

Right now I am getting around 35mpg / 6.6l/100km combined, but no warning lights on the dashboard so it appears the battery is still in good condition. I'm fine with it, but not sure if this is the best I can expect from this car, so it made me wonder if anyone has looked at changing the software version themselves? I may replace the battery with the BeeMax one in future, so if/when I do that I don't really care about protecting the battery as much as that can take more of a hammering than the original as it is newer tech.

ezone

There have been numerous software updates for many of the cars.
AFAIK the only way to find out if it's all current is to take the car to a dealership shop and have them connect to the car and see if updates are available for it.

CanadaJimmy

Makes sense, thanks. I just like the idea of having more control over the software installed in the car myself, just to see if upgrading/rolling it back really does change MPG performance. The dealership would probably only be able to give me the latest version, which according to whats on the internet, hurts the fuel economy. No idea what equipment would be required to do so or how I'd get my hands on the software and update files.

ezone

Correct. We (at the dealer) have no way to go back to an earlier version.

The MPG loss that everyone went nuts over wasn't much at all IMO. It's actually been so long ago I almost forgot when it happened, but I do remember the court case in California that everyone was watching so closely, the plaintiff LOST their case because they didn't have any real documentation of an actual loss of fuel economy. .Honda won.


IMA battery software choices can vary depending on the type of battery installed (some modified IMA charging to avoid premature battery failure when a Honda sourced replacement was installed), but there is little info on what exactly is different amongst the various choices. All we really know is the replacements weren't exactly the same as original.

I'd say to just drive the thing like a normal econobox and get your moneys worth out of it while you can.


I just googled this to see what it is. Bumblebee batteries certainly rang a bell.
A "customer" with an old Insight bought one of their IMA batteries a few years ago and paid us to install it. At the time, I found and read their receipt and did some math.

Their price for that battery plus our labor fee added up to just a tad MORE than what we would have charged to install an IMA battery from Honda.
PLUS the cars owner had to deal with shipping the new battery to their house, then shipping the old battery back to Bumblebee after I was finished.

CanadaJimmy

Thanks for all your information on this! Sounds like I was worrying about nothing then, really.

Haha, econobox, I like that. Thats exactly what I bought it for, a cheapy commuter car. I think that is probably the best advice, thank you.

I've also recently been made aware that this car likely has an engine mount issue as well, common with this generation (vibration at low speed/idle), and needs a CVT transmission flush, so that is more of a priority now as well to deal with at some point over the IMA system!

ezone

You can always find someone complaining about literally anything under the sun. Are they valid complaints? Sometimes.
I think it was blown out of proportion though JMHO.
Hybrids generally didn't have the same mount issue that the regular cars did.

IOW don't worry until it actually has a problem. It may never have that problem.
Absolutely service the trans regularly, but NO FLUSH from any ordinary shop or JizzyLube!

It's just drain and fill, easier than a DIY oil change.
At work we recommend every 30k, and if it's never been serviced before this point I'd want to do it more than once.

DO use the correct HONDA CVT fluid. No substitutes!

CanadaJimmy

Every 30k - good to know. As far as I know it's never been changed, so it's overdue for sure and likely why I'm experiencing some lurching (which I think is slipping clutch). I'm having it changed at my local Honda Dealer - I considered doing it myself, but it's only a $60 premium over me just buying 3 bottles of the fluid myself anyway, and I'd rather not deal with it and I know they'll use the correct fluid (though I'm going to double check and ask when I arrive).

ezone

"Of course we use the correct fluid!"

then it goes to the new oil change guy who doesn't know anything yet.

Sorry, was not trying to scare you.....

the only clutch is called the start clutch and it would cause shudders during initial takeoff. Any real lurching might be a problem. See what a fluid change does for it and go from there.

Also know that incorrect trans fluids can cause some really weird problems.

CanadaJimmy

Went to the dealership - they changed the price from $112.88 up to $164!! This was after booking online and then calling to double check the price. Because it was a CVT it's different.

I cancelled right then and instead walked over to the parts desk and bought 3 bottles of the CVT fluid to do it myself, which they still gouged me for at $20 a litre!

I came across these instructions to do it myself: https://www.8thcivic.com/forums/diy-...id-change.html
Does seem quite straightforward - the only part that gets me is the drain washer that goes on when you put the plug back in - is this necessary to replace every single time or can the old washer be reused? If not, where's the best place to source these washers? dealership?

Also since we've deviated from software, if you are able to maybe feel free to rename the thread "2006 Hybrid - Maintenance Questions" or something! Thanks for your help so far.

ezone

Post is live now LOL
I said it's easier than an oil change!

Fluid level is checked with engine turned OFF.

Dump in your 2.5 quarts (or whatever it is),
run it, shut it off, check the level.
Adjust as needed to the lower end of the acceptable range at first.
Recheck level again after it's been driven 10-20 miles to get the trans fluid up to operating temperature, because the fluid level will rise as fluid temperature rises.

Drainplug washer, dealer is easiest (hopefully) but many parts stores have a selection to choose from---most of the time you have to take the old one with you to be sure it's right, but they SHOULD be able to look it up and be right too.
I personally do not replace it every time, but the soft aluminum washer tends to squash out after it has been reused a few times and that's a clue it has been reused too much.

CanadaJimmy

Just thought I'd give a quick update!

Transmission fluid was drained and refilled, car is running a lot better now, smoother and shifting down sooner, particularly noticeable on hills where before it would get "stuck" in the 3500rpms range, now it shifts down to 2000rpms. I will be following an every-other-oil-change schedule to keep the transmission better lubricated, so a little more frequent than "standard" but I think it's worth it to keep the car running reliably.

A mechanic confirmed the transmission mount (one of the engine mounts) has a crack, which is causing the vibration, so in the process of finding a good quality replacement honda OEM transmission mount affordably. I'm in no rush on this but keeping my eye out, and I don't want an aftermarket mount.

As for my original question about the software version, I'm now sure the car has been updated. How I can tell, is that the battery level rarely goes below 50% / 4 bars. The system will not allow draining the battery further for any assist power on the latest ECU software.

I found this mentioned in a thread over at GreenHybrid:
4. For HCH II owners only (Keep your SOC between 2-7 bars if you have an unaltered HCHII) Don't get the update unless you are willing to accept the consequences.

On the old software it would allow you to go as low as possible, and it even states this in the manual:
The gauge reading may drop near the bottom under driving conditions that require IMA motor assistance for a long time, such as prolonged acceleration or climbing a long hill. The engine will recharge the battery as you continue driving.

It makes sense they would change this as frequent deep discharging is known to shorten the life of NiMH batteries. So if anyone is wondering how to figure out the version, just watch the battery level gauge and if it stays around the 50% mark at the lowest point, you have the update!