mercerguy323

Am considering having my front brakes replaced. Nothing wrong with rotors, no warping, no steering wheel shake when applying brakes. I have never been happy with the pedal traveling distance, it always seemed like 1/3 of the pedal did nothing at all. I'd sure like some more brake grabbing right away when applying the brakes. Even when the brakes were replaced some 40K ago, with new rotors too, the pedal still traveled too far for my liking. My GFs Hyundai brakes grab right away! I"ve tried the E brake thing and the braking while backing up fixes to no avail.

So, since I am having someone else do the brakes, I assume I only need the current rotors resurfaced and new pads installed? And is there something I should ask the installer to do to make sure I get less pedal travel or, is this just a Honda thing? Thanks!

ezone

You need to compare to an identical HONDA Civic. Maybe a couple of them if possible....They vary just a little between cars, but not a lot IMO.

Hyundai will never be a Honda no matter how bad anyone pronounces the name to sound like Honda LOL.


Reminds me....A few days ago a tow truck driver brought in a strange looking car.....dropped it in the parking lot, then came in to the service drive and announced "I brung ya a 'Honda Entourage'".

"Honda doesn't make an 'Entourage'. You might want to drag that car to the "High-you-un-die" dealer down the road."

mercerguy323

Funny!

I've had the car since 12K miles on it and the brake pedal has laways traveled too far for my liking. I had new brakes installed by Honda 40K ago, and the pedal travel was the same after some $500+.

Shouldn't new brake pads grab immediately? Love those Hyundai Elantra brakes! LOL

ezone

Shoulda had that addressed while it was covered under warranty.

Price paid shouldn't make any difference.
Ask your installer.

WTF made a basic front brake job cost over 500 anyway? Wouldn't that have been just pads and resurface?

I'm sure they do. Your issue is with pedal travel distance though, which is not quite the same. Could be several different things that might affect how they feel....air in system, rear shoe self adjuters, stuck pads or slides, pedal pushrod adjustment, booster pushrod adjustment, etc.

OR it could be normal for the car too....that's why you need to compare apples to apples.
Maybe they are TOO high, TOO grabby. Maybe they need adjustments backed off a bit

mercerguy323

Yup. I think it was $580 for new rotors and pads in the front at my friendly local Honda dealer. I walked in, asked for new rotors and pads and an adjustment to the pedal travel which I thought the new brake job would have taken care of.

Not only did they charge me what they did but, when I asked for the old rotors back (have a buddy who junks), my car was now not ready. This was 5 minutes after they told me I was all set! Shady to say the least. Charged me for new rotors, left the old ones on and "cut" them. Specifically asked for NEW rotors. Don't want to be back there in 5000 miles when the newly "cut" rotors warp due to being thinner than they were.
Then the Honda mechanic had to put new ones on because I asked for the old ones back. If I was them, I would have grabbed some old rotors out of the scrap pile and given them to me. Maybe they did!

No idea why a set of front brakes and rotors costs $500+, guess it's that $130/hr labor rate? LOL

BTW, I specifically asked to have the pedal travel be shortened and by the first traffic signal I knew these "new" brakes had the same travel as the old ones! Honda thing I guess. Just have to accept it. Love those grabby Hyundai brakes but, that's about all I love about their cars.

mercerguy323

I have the bill if you want to know specifics.

ezone

Not necessary, I see now why it seemed so high to me.

mercerguy323

$120 for Labor on front brakes
$164 for 2 rotors
$61 for pads
$87 Labor for brake Flush
$29 for brake fluid
$55 Labor for brake adjustment (parking brake and rear brakes?)

$569.94 total and the same pedal travel.

mercerguy323

Maybe I should have someone else do this next brake job? That seems high to me!

ezone

Seems like you should have gone right back instead of going home. Get it straightened out right then.


OTOH
Maybe instead of dictating the procedures you think will fix the problem, maybe a good technician should diagnose what is really wrong with it (provided there really is some problem, and this isn't average for the car). Sometimes this just boils down to trying some things instead of trying to figure things out.
And...not everyone with a shoebox full of tools is capable of figuring things out. Many just replace parts.

ezone

And it still won't change how your pedal feels.


A pad slap should be much cheaper.

At the shop I work for, we resurface rotors as long as they are above minimum thickness spec.

mercerguy323

I went there for the purpose of getting new pads and rotors installed. The pedal travel was secondary and, something I thought would be solved with the new brakes. My rotors were warped and the steering wheel was shaking during braking. So, I knew what I wanted, new pads and rotors.

As for trying things, that has cost me a ton of money. I go to HONDA because I consider them the HONDA EXPERTS. If i want guesses that end up piling up the costs to me, I will go to Joe's garage and let him guess/try things for a lot less money. I don't mind paying extra for a CORRECT diagnosis the first time.

I recently paid $250 for a Honda dealer to try 3-4 guesses about why my cruise control shut off whenever it wanted to, only to find it was a loose ground wire and I diagnosed that not them!
Then I had the Honda mechanic guess on why my power steering was making a noise. That guess/try things cost me $400 even though the mechanic was sure he had the right diagnosis. So, I know all about " trying some things" but, I expect an accurate diagnosis from my Honda dealer because, that's all they work on and they charge $130/hr labor. You're right on that last part. They're just parts swappers until they hit the right thing. Sometimes they never do. But they still charge you, the customer.

mercerguy323

I sit there and I listen to the repairs they explain that "you need" to other people while in the waiting area. They rip everyone who comes in clueless. I come in with some sort of idea about cars, learned the unfortunate way albeit. When I go to my doctor I share with him my symptoms. Without that info, he wouldn't know what's wrong with me. I do the same at the Honda dealer. I've had enough warped rotors in my life to know one so, I don't think I was dictating. If I come in and ask for new rotors and pads, please just install them. I'm willing to pay, oh boy did I pay! $570 for brakes, they got me.

ezone

That's fine...Is it doing the same thing again, you want new rotors again?
I always figured one shouldn't have to pay for wrong answers....but I know that's not the reality. And you can find this in almost every profession, not just auto shops.


Here's a quote for you:
Almost everyone, except those of us who have worked at
dealerships, thinks that they hire, train and retain only
the best technicians. This is just more evidence to the
contrary. They are no better or worse than independent
shops. If the manager and owner hire a bunch of clowns then
you end up with a three ring circus.


Few shops, dealer or independent, can afford to keep a full staff of top gun talent. Most rely heavily on lower paid and lesser trained workers to do the majority of the work.

The guy who hangs brake jobs all day, every day...probably knows very little about how a hydraulic system actually works....and if there is any unusual issue, couldn't diagnose his way out of a wet paper bag.

mercerguy323

No. I like the way my car is braking with the exception of the pedal travel. I know that the pads and rotors have @ 45K on them but, I also know I am not a heavy breaker and my driving style is not one that has historically lead to low mileage replacement need. I did the brake job last time because of the warped factory rotors. these seem 100% better as I've had no shake at all.

I guess the pads being on there 45K has me concerned this time. I've come to accept that my pedal travel will never be like that Hyundai! Isn't there also an adjustment of balance for the front and back brakes too?

mercerguy323

Did you happen to read my other post about spark plug replacement? I have 80K on the car and half thought about doing some preventative maintenance. The car seems to have been running a little rough lately and, the plugs are maintenance item # 2, after fuel injection cleaner. (Gumout but have used Lucas and Techron before)

ezone

Maybe you ought to check the pad thickness instead of just replacing them based on miles? Maybe there's no need to replace right now.

Anyway, if it were my own car and there is no shake, I might just slap fresh pads and not touch the rotors at all.

User adjustable bias? No.
Have you checked it? I replied to it like 2 hours ago.
A little rough? Motor mount vibration?
Maintenance minder item #2 is for air and cabin filters replacement.
Plugs are #4 in the maintenance minder system.
Or did you mean on your own list?
Shouldn't be necessary IMO.

Burn Top Tier Gas for best results.
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers/
(read all about what and why too!)

mercerguy323

I have been on this thread. Didn't realize you commented on the plug thread. Thanks.

I'm not sure I could tell what a motor mount vibration would feel like. What causes a motor mount to go bad?

I meant that I tried fuel injector cleaner first, on my list. My air filter gets changed religiously. Plugs was next on my list. I watched a Youtube video on plug replacement but, I haven't had much luck doing preventative maintenance on my own vehicles. It's part of why I take it to Mr. Easy! LOL

I also read the comments below the video and some people said it made no difference in their car's performance to change plugs, some said the old ones looked new when they took them out and some said the car ran worse after replacement. That would be my category! LOL

We have Valeros here too.

I once had a friend who argued fuel injector cleaner with me and here was his premise:

If fuel injector cleaner removes dirt and deposits, wouldn't it also remove them from your gas tank and clog your filter and injectors? Now, this was years ago and filters were different and gas tanks were metal so..............

I will click on your tab but, I'll tell you I am in NJ and we have stations called Wawa here. They are a big company and mostly known as a convenience store originally but, now they build these large combo convenience/gas stations all over. That's where I get my gas regularly.

mercerguy323

Oh BTW, as for the vibration, it goes away if I have the lights, rear defroster, AC..... on because the engine idles higher. It normally idles at around 700 RPM with all accessories off.

ezone

There is one mount in particular that goes bad on this particular car, if it's bad it will usually vibrate the entire car while in reverse then go away completely as you accelerate forward. IMO it's really freekin obvious something isn't right when it happens.
It's a 4 cylinder engine, SOME vibration is normal and expected under some conditions. Also, you cannot adjust idle speed. Electric throttle and computer controlled. Best you can do is wipe memory and let it relearn idle, which may or may not make any difference.

Incorrect plugs can cause problems, power loss and misfire.
Correct plugs can't gain you any power, unless they were the cause of poor running in the first place. These days with engines using precious metal plugs that last 60-100k+ miles, that's rare. Whenever someone requests a tune up, that raises red flags because (almost) nobody ever asks for something like that unless it runs bad, and plugs rarely cause such problems.


Not interested LOL

I did not see that name on the list of approved TOP TIER fuels.

There's a distinct advantage to using TOP TIER GAS.
There are varying disadvantages to using other fuels.

mercerguy323

I looked at the gas link. If you look in the upper right corner they mention convenience stores possibly being added soon. I suppose that's when Wawa will make the list.

I pulled one of the spark plugs, and it was white/beige. I put it back in without pulling the other 3. I probably wont change the plugs as the car is running fine, and my mileage is good. The vibration thing isn't a big vibration, so I will probably wait and see if that becomes a bigger issue. For now I will try to put good gas in the car.

Thanks, until next time.