JohnnyBxo

I didn't expect to see the spark plugs not in the middle of the valve cover, but I guess on the Civic EX they are located on the outside of the cover. I recently replaced my value cover gasket and the kit came with spark plug socket gaskets.


Before attempting to find a socket big enough to remove the nut seen at the base of the spark plug socket, does any one have tips or tricks to replacing these gaskets? Thanks in advance.

ezone

Post a pic of your valve cover gasket first. You may not have the right kit for that engine.
EDIT: Duh! I can't read.
Maybe the rings are not supposed to be there, not for this engine?


You have no reason to try to pull those bigass nuts off the plug holes, do you? (I have NEVER done it.)



EDIT2: Staring at the parts diagram, those big nuts don't seem to have any seals or gaskets.

JohnnyBxo

Hey ezone. Thanks for stopping by and replying. This is the exact gasket kit I bought (http://www.autozone.com/internal-eng...7868_167771_0/). It came with the four spark plug tube seal gaskets. I've just seen what looked like oil that might have seeped out from this area. Here are some pics that led me to changing out the valve cover gasket. You can see what looks like oil that may have leaked from from between the plug tubes, though the plug tubes themselves are dry. I still have to clean the residual oil from the outside of the engine to see if I've killed the leak with the new valve cover gasket yet, but just getting ahead of myself with the spark plug tube seals. http://imgur.com/a/hCovA

ezone

I think the pics look like a valve cover gasket leak. Since you already changed the VC gasket. clean off all the oil mess residue so you have a clean slate to work with.


I think you can probably throw away the 4 ring seals, they are not for your engine. They certainly cannot go in your valve cover, so I think they are for a very different engine.
Just because they came in the package doesn't mean they are needed.

JohnnyBxo

I suspect you might be right. I'll toss them in drawer and I'll clean off the engine to check to see if the leak is fixed. Thanks again for your help!

Random question: any idea why the top caliper guide pin on the fronts brakes has that bushing? I can't seem to find any mention or talk about it on the internet. Recently replaced the pins, pads, and clips because I had a stuck pad leading to uneven pad wear on the outside pad. All the dealer could tell me was the pin with the bushing goes on the top (I didn't pay attention to which went where when I took them off originally). It seemed like the pins had better spring in them when the bushing pin was on the bottom though.

ezone

The engineers thought it was important?

I can post some ideas but I don't have a solid answer.
If the rubber ring was missing--- I think you would never know it until you took it apart.

JohnnyBxo

Haha, fair enough. I thought I'd pick your brain because you've helped me with every other problem I had with the good ol' civic. Thanks again!!

MN-02-CivicEx

Got a question about the Spark Plug tube (part B) with that rubber boot on the bottom end that comes in contact with the Spark Plug and supposedly helps prevents oil from seeping past it. Sometimes they come off the end (and remain in the tube) when pulling part B out of the tube. Learned that it's best to turn part B back & forth first before slowly removing it. Does Honda sell just that bottom boot or a better question ... are those bottom end boots even necessary as oil will still eventually work its way past that bottom end boot IF oil is leaking past a VC seal. What is the technical name for part B?

Also, how do you know which way to insert those 4 Valve Cover tube seals in the VC. The previous mechanic that installed a new VC gasket and seals may have put them in upside down as there was visible evidence the rubber lip on the old VC seals were chewed/ripped when i pulled out the 4 SP things (part B), and there was some evidence of oil in the tubes, but nothing significant. There was no instruction with the FelPro kit as which way was the right way to insert the VC tube seals into the VC recesses.

Would be great if someone has a closeup/macro photo they could post of a correctly inserted seal taken from the underside/inside of the VC. Or just explain if the side of the VC seal with the recessed grove is visible or not visible once installed in the underside/inside of the VC.

ezone

B is an ignition coil, not a "spark plug tube".


This coil is inserted into the "spark plug tube", where the spark plug resides.

Terminology is everything here.




The boot (narrow rubber boot on the bottom tip of the ignition coil pictured above) are NOT there to prevent oil leakage, they are there for high voltage insulation.
If a boot came off the end of a coil you'd need to purchase a replacement ignition coil.

If the boot is missing or has come unbonded then sparks can "leak out" and cause misfires.


There is never oil in the area of the spark plug tubes when everything is right (except for what leaked out of the valve cover gasket area, and there is no way for that oil to get inside the tubes).
If you found residue in the spark plug tubes it could be that someone left the plugs loose and it's collected soot and combustion gases.


Post pictures of every part you talk about here, including whatever you are calling a valve cover.
Again, terminology is everything.
I need to know what you are talking about, and your terms are not correct so I cannot draw a mental picture here yet..

MN-02-CivicEx

YES, you are so right on with the importance of proper terminology.
For example JohnnyBxo actually meant VC tube seals as spark plug "gaskets" aren't included in a new valve cover gasket kit.

You aren't alone in not knowing for sure which is the correct way to insert the VC Tube Seals into the VC. The Honda Service Mgr (27 years with Honda) asked the Lead Mechanic just to be sure. The mechanic (not Honda) that installed the previous replacement VC Ring Seals put them in the wrong way. The attached Thumbnail Photo shows the wrong side you DON'T want facing you when pressing the Ring Seals into the VC recesses. The only advantage of installing them the wrong way is they are EASY to remove once you realize its wrong.

The Honda Lead Mechanic had an extra SP Ignition Coil Insulator Boot that he gave me. Will get some high temp adhesive to bond the boot he gave me to the SP Ignition Coil. Will clean both surfaces with Acetone to get a good bond and let it setup overnight before installing. Both the Service Mgr and Lead Mechanic didn't know the proper terminology, but thought Neoprene Insulator Boot was OK. Told them that you were pretty particular on using the proper terminology.

ezone

Oh my, I didn't even realize you were not the OP when I replied, sorry.

That's not exactly a previous generation to me LOL

MN-02-CivicEx

In case you've never heard of Les Paul and Mary Ford (How High The Moon) Les invented the solid body guitar and finally convinced Fender it was the Way To Go. Les also invented multi-track recording thanks to a little help from Frank Sinatra and Ampex.

Here's another Les Paul tune with his electric guitar foot pedal and sustainer.

ezone

Oh yes!

She and Les were married, they had a bunch of gold records in the 50s...

That song is more like my parents generation....
I had a pile of 45s they handed down to me when I was little, but I have no clue what happened to most of them.

I had a pile of 78s at one point too, no clue there either.
I have a mid 60s AKAI reel-to-reel and maybe 15 AMPEX tapes with home recordings, and a couple blanks.
It still worked as recently as 10 years ago.

MN-02-CivicEx

Yesterday replaced three torn, cracked, deformed Neoprene Insulator Boots and rebonded all four Boots onto the Spark Plug Ignition Coil with High Temp Adhesive. Let them sit overnight to set bond before reinstalling the Ignition Coils this morning.

This photo of the Valve Cover Tube Seal Rings shows the correct side you'll see when pressing them into the Seal Ring recesses of the Valve Cover. Unfortunately the previous mechanic installed the Ring Seals the wrong way as shown in previous posted thumbnail photo. Installing the wrong way allows some oil to get past any torn/ripped edge of the Ring Seals and seep into the Spark Plug Tube.

ezone

No wonder I'm confused, and it's not because of old age!

Ok the OP of this thread was talking about a 1.8 R engine, you are talking about a 1.7 D engine. Two totally different animals as far as the tube seals and VC gaskets go.

MN-02-CivicEx

My fault as I thought the 4 Ring Seals shown with that Kit Part # listed above for this "1.8 R" engine were installed in this engines Valve Cover. If only the 1.7 D engine had the Spark Plug Tubes outside and below the Valve Cover it would have been a major improvement. An improvement like this makes so much sense after the fact. The Japanese Engineers must have been thumping their head wondering WHY did we ever design the engine with those darn Ring Seals in the Valve Cover in the first place.

Well, at least the shape of the Ignition Coils with the Neoprene Insulator Boot are virtually identical in appearance on both the 1.8 R and 1.7 D engines. Just different voltages, amperage, etc. In another five years these more recent generation Ignition Coils may suffer the same problem with loosening Boots that need rebonding or replacing. No need to spend $100 on another Ignition Coil when a loose Boot or a replacement Boot can be rebonded onto a perfectly good Ignition Coil.

Just another reminder to remove your Spark Plugs every 50,000 miles to clean any accumulated carbon buildup at the end of the Plug and reinstall with a little Spark Plug anti-seize with the recommended torgue. And while your at it inspect the condition of those Neoprene Insulator Boots.

ezone

Wait a minute....
The 1.8 does not have any rings in the valve cover. The 1.7 does.

The coils on a 1.7 pass through the valve cover, but on a 1.8 they do not.

Oil can and will get into the spark plug holes of a 1.7 engine if the 4 tube seals aren't perfect (and ruin the rubber parts of its coil), but a 1.8 won't get oil in the spark plug holes at all.
Easy. The 1.8 does not use them, the 1.7 does.

I did not intend to imply any such, and I apologize if I did.


My confusion began when you made post #8 and asked questions about your own car/engine, accompanied by a diagram of a 1.8 engine.....Thus, I (wrongly) assumed you were the OP of this thread (JohnnyBxo) and I still had my thinking cap set to 2007 Civic 1.8 engine.

This should explain why I replied in post #9 the way I did.


Again, I apologize.

....

Here's a pic of the reel to reel and a few well worn tapes:



Looks like it needs some cleaning....