2007 Civic "cold" start problem
11-03-2013
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2007 Civic "cold" start problem
Hello everyone,
I'm experiencing a weird problem that I can't quite figure out yet. My civic is having a "cold" start problem. When I say cold I mean how long the car has sat although the problem is slightly more amplified when the outside temperatures are colder. (Honda Civic EX Civic coupe)
So after my car has sat for 8-10+ hours, it hesitates to start almost as if the battery is dead/engine is starved for gas. It will turnover a second or two and then will make that dead battery click noise. When the weather is above 55 degrees F I can simply turn the car to the on position first, wait 6 or so seconds and then turn to start. The car will start right up and always runs perfectly.
Now what I'm experiencing in the less than 55 degree temps (today was 45) is I'll turn for 6 seconds then try to start and same problem, but if I press the gas peddle a little it will start right up.
So, I'm stumped. The battery is less than a year old and I recently had it tested as well. Alternator also test good. It just seems like the engine is starved for gas. The engine doesn't run rough or idle rough so I'm less likely to suspect fuel filter.
Can anyone shed some light on this problem? Any will be appreciated! Thanks!
I'm experiencing a weird problem that I can't quite figure out yet. My civic is having a "cold" start problem. When I say cold I mean how long the car has sat although the problem is slightly more amplified when the outside temperatures are colder. (Honda Civic EX Civic coupe)
So after my car has sat for 8-10+ hours, it hesitates to start almost as if the battery is dead/engine is starved for gas. It will turnover a second or two and then will make that dead battery click noise. When the weather is above 55 degrees F I can simply turn the car to the on position first, wait 6 or so seconds and then turn to start. The car will start right up and always runs perfectly.
Now what I'm experiencing in the less than 55 degree temps (today was 45) is I'll turn for 6 seconds then try to start and same problem, but if I press the gas peddle a little it will start right up.
So, I'm stumped. The battery is less than a year old and I recently had it tested as well. Alternator also test good. It just seems like the engine is starved for gas. The engine doesn't run rough or idle rough so I'm less likely to suspect fuel filter.
Can anyone shed some light on this problem? Any will be appreciated! Thanks!
11-04-2013
#2
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
The battery is less than a year old and I recently had it tested as well.
It will turnover a second or two and then will make that dead battery click noise.
Kinda need to check things at the time it doesn't want to start. Battery voltage during cranking?
Something could be draining the battery overnight. Light left on, AC clutch relay stuck on, etc. Easy check would be to disconnect the battery before it sits overnight, then reconnect it before you start the engine. If it acts properly in the morning, then the car might be draining it when left connected. Listen for if the AC clutch makes a loud click when you disconnect the battery, that's been a huge problem (stuck relay).
Battery cable connections,
Connection where the ground cable attaches to the body: rust and corrosion on the cable and that little bolt has been a common cause of total electric power loss. Ground connections between the body and engine/trans, there is one right near that battery cable.
11-04-2013
#3
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
I honestly think the original batt in my 2010 was bad from day one, used to get starts that just did not sound right (not strong) after 44 months or so it died, by far the least I've ever gotten from any original equipment lead acid.
Ended up with another Johnson controls Interstate damn it. Last Interstate bought lasted exactly 3 years, mechanic buddy got off the truck and had no slip.
11-05-2013
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That doesn't mean it is good, and that doesn't really indicate what is happening at the time it doesn't want to start. Passing the test only means all was well at that single point in time.
I'll assume this is a lack of electric power here, since a lack of fuel cannot cause this symptom.
Kinda need to check things at the time it doesn't want to start. Battery voltage during cranking?
Something could be draining the battery overnight. Light left on, AC clutch relay stuck on, etc. Easy check would be to disconnect the battery before it sits overnight, then reconnect it before you start the engine. If it acts properly in the morning, then the car might be draining it when left connected. Listen for if the AC clutch makes a loud click when you disconnect the battery, that's been a huge problem (stuck relay).
Battery cable connections,
Connection where the ground cable attaches to the body: rust and corrosion on the cable and that little bolt has been a common cause of total electric power loss. Ground connections between the body and engine/trans, there is one right near that battery cable.
I'll assume this is a lack of electric power here, since a lack of fuel cannot cause this symptom.
Kinda need to check things at the time it doesn't want to start. Battery voltage during cranking?
Something could be draining the battery overnight. Light left on, AC clutch relay stuck on, etc. Easy check would be to disconnect the battery before it sits overnight, then reconnect it before you start the engine. If it acts properly in the morning, then the car might be draining it when left connected. Listen for if the AC clutch makes a loud click when you disconnect the battery, that's been a huge problem (stuck relay).
Battery cable connections,
Connection where the ground cable attaches to the body: rust and corrosion on the cable and that little bolt has been a common cause of total electric power loss. Ground connections between the body and engine/trans, there is one right near that battery cable.
11-05-2013
#5
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
Does it make sense that the colder temperatures drain this down faster? And if it is this drain that is happening, how come a bit of gas or turning the key to the on position for a few seconds can remedy this issue?
To add to the previous post, I have seen instances where a faulty battery can discharge itself in a day or two, without being connected to anything.
11-05-2013
#6
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You are holding your key at II, so it wont get better conditions then that to fire....but only turning over for a short time before rapid click sure sounds like a bad batt, or you have a drain pulling it down overnight.
I honestly think the original batt in my 2010 was bad from day one, used to get starts that just did not sound right (not strong) after 44 months or so it died, by far the least I've ever gotten from any original equipment lead acid.
Ended up with another Johnson controls Interstate damn it. Last Interstate bought lasted exactly 3 years, mechanic buddy got off the truck and had no slip.
I honestly think the original batt in my 2010 was bad from day one, used to get starts that just did not sound right (not strong) after 44 months or so it died, by far the least I've ever gotten from any original equipment lead acid.
Ended up with another Johnson controls Interstate damn it. Last Interstate bought lasted exactly 3 years, mechanic buddy got off the truck and had no slip.
The drain makes sense as you said and as the first responder said, but may by I'm not entirely converse it's that. So let's say my car has sat all night. It's a beautiful morning about about 75 F degrees out. I'll attempt to start it, cranks once or twice for a second then the clicking noise. That noise I know to be specifically from a dead battery. I stop trying to start it when I hear that click. So what I do is turn the key to the on position. I hear the pump pressurize, radio comes on, fans start running and I count to 6. One one thousand, two one thousand etc. I'll then first my key turn to the start position and it starts perfectly without a hitch. That's why I originally suspected it being fuel starved based on how I remedy it, but the symptoms definitely sounds more battery drain like you and other poster said.
I guess I just expect that if it was a battery drained that everything wouldn't fire on after what seemed like my battery was dead when starting as well as waiting for few seconds in on allowed it to start right up. :/
11-05-2013
#7
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Interesting. I will be sure to check out the ground cable connecting to the frame as well as when I disconnect the battery I listen for the relay click. I'd love to solve this soon!
11-05-2013
#8
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
You would hear the loud click of the compressor clutch disengaging if it does anything. You'd never hear that little relay because it'd be stuck with the contacts closed.
That being stuck on is just a guess, but it's been a fairly common problem. There's a bulletin mentioning it, and an improved relay is available.
I also look for the compressor to be running when I KNOW it shouldn't be.
Or evidence of the high pressure relief valve opening.
Or, use an ammeter to measure draw when the car and key are off. After a 15 minute wait period: draw of under 50mA is industry standard, and these cars normally show less than 30mA draw when I measure on a good one.
Any little bump can make the relay let go and come unstuck, then it will work normally for a while again.....
That being stuck on is just a guess, but it's been a fairly common problem. There's a bulletin mentioning it, and an improved relay is available.
I also look for the compressor to be running when I KNOW it shouldn't be.
Or evidence of the high pressure relief valve opening.
Or, use an ammeter to measure draw when the car and key are off. After a 15 minute wait period: draw of under 50mA is industry standard, and these cars normally show less than 30mA draw when I measure on a good one.
Any little bump can make the relay let go and come unstuck, then it will work normally for a while again.....
11-05-2013
#9
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
I read one time about something with the key needing to be near the car for the fuel pump to turn on, or something as such.
Perhaps that could have a fault somewhere in it making it take longer to recognize the key signal?
Try going to the car and just sit in it for 30 seconds, without putting the key into the ignition, before trying to start it and see if that resolves the problem.
Just an idea, i don't know all too much about this subject.
Perhaps that could have a fault somewhere in it making it take longer to recognize the key signal?
Try going to the car and just sit in it for 30 seconds, without putting the key into the ignition, before trying to start it and see if that resolves the problem.
Just an idea, i don't know all too much about this subject.
11-06-2013
#10
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
I read one time about something with the key needing to be near the car for the fuel pump to turn on, or something as such.
Perhaps that could have a fault somewhere in it making it take longer to recognize the key signal?
Perhaps that could have a fault somewhere in it making it take longer to recognize the key signal?
The immobilizer reads the chip inside the ignition key when the ignition switch is turned on.
The immobilizer decides within about two seconds if fuel should be disabled or not. If it disables fuel because it didn't recognize a registered transponder chip (key), the green key symbol on the gauge cluster would flash angrily as long as the ignition is on....
But the starter will still operate normally through all of this.
OP hasn't mentioned anything about the green key light flashing at him.
Just an idea, i don't know all too much about this subject.
HTH
11-06-2013
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I tried that this morning. I turn the fan to off before starting and the same condition arose. I always keep my fan on the lowest setting to keep from mold and stuff from settling in the air system.
11-07-2013
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11-07-2013
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11-07-2013
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If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
Battery cable connections,
Connection where the ground cable attaches to the body: rust and corrosion on the cable and that little bolt has been a common cause of total electric power loss. Ground connections between the body and engine/trans, there is one right near that battery cable.
11-08-2013
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I took a picture under my hood today looking at that same contact point. It looks rusted up like you suggested might be.
The weekend is finally upon us! I will have the opportunity to disconnect the battery overnight to see if the car is draining it like you suggested. What's typically the fix for this kind of rusted contact point? Thanks!
The weekend is finally upon us! I will have the opportunity to disconnect the battery overnight to see if the car is draining it like you suggested. What's typically the fix for this kind of rusted contact point? Thanks!
11-08-2013
#19
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
Take it all apart. Pull out the battery if you need more room to work.
Wire brushes and lots of elbow grease. Wire wheel. Maybe a fresh bolt too?
Need clean shiny metal contacting clean shiny metal at every point, whatever it takes to make that happen...... and then I like to slather it all with Silicone Dielectric grease to avoid more corrosion later.
-------
FWIW, right now I have an 06 Civic in here that has a software update available for it, called something like 'cold hard start' as the title, but did not find any documentation about what it is or what it does, or what all cars this might apply to. I cannot say that it could be even remotely related to your issues.
It likely only addresses some starting-running condition rather than any battery related issue.
Wire brushes and lots of elbow grease. Wire wheel. Maybe a fresh bolt too?
Need clean shiny metal contacting clean shiny metal at every point, whatever it takes to make that happen...... and then I like to slather it all with Silicone Dielectric grease to avoid more corrosion later.
-------
FWIW, right now I have an 06 Civic in here that has a software update available for it, called something like 'cold hard start' as the title, but did not find any documentation about what it is or what it does, or what all cars this might apply to. I cannot say that it could be even remotely related to your issues.
It likely only addresses some starting-running condition rather than any battery related issue.
11-09-2013
#20
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Take it all apart. Pull out the battery if you need more room to work.
Wire brushes and lots of elbow grease. Wire wheel. Maybe a fresh bolt too?
Need clean shiny metal contacting clean shiny metal at every point, whatever it takes to make that happen...... and then I like to slather it all with Silicone Dielectric grease to avoid more corrosion later.
Wire brushes and lots of elbow grease. Wire wheel. Maybe a fresh bolt too?
Need clean shiny metal contacting clean shiny metal at every point, whatever it takes to make that happen...... and then I like to slather it all with Silicone Dielectric grease to avoid more corrosion later.
FWIW, right now I have an 06 Civic in here that has a software update available for it, called something like 'cold hard start' as the title, but did not find any documentation about what it is or what it does, or what all cars this might apply to. I cannot say that it could be even remotely related to your issues.
It likely only addresses some starting-running condition rather than any battery related issue.
It likely only addresses some starting-running condition rather than any battery related issue.
11-10-2013
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Take it all apart. Pull out the battery if you need more room to work.
Wire brushes and lots of elbow grease. Wire wheel. Maybe a fresh bolt too?
Need clean shiny metal contacting clean shiny metal at every point, whatever it takes to make that happen...... and then I like to slather it all with Silicone Dielectric grease to avoid more corrosion later.
Wire brushes and lots of elbow grease. Wire wheel. Maybe a fresh bolt too?
Need clean shiny metal contacting clean shiny metal at every point, whatever it takes to make that happen...... and then I like to slather it all with Silicone Dielectric grease to avoid more corrosion later.
11-13-2013
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11-25-2013
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Who has their thinking caps on today??? I have an official update now that it's been a while.
So happily the original problem is fixed and I no longer have that issue. However, the cold temperatures is now giving me starting problems. After it's sat a bit in the cold, 8 hours+, I go to start it and the engine turns over once, then nothing. I turned it off, wait a moment and turn it to start again. It will turn over 1, 1 and half, 2 times, then no sound at all. I turn it to off, wait another moment, then I try to start again. And wa-la starts right up. Is this a safe assumption that this is a different issue and not the battery because I'm not getting the rapid battery clicking noise when this symptom is happening? When I say I hear nothing, I mean I hear nothing going on in the engine. The radio and everything else electric pops right up. The temperatures that this really seems to be an issue has been between 15F and 35F. Anything warmer than that, it's not an issue.
As always, I appreciate everyone's help and feedback! Thanks in advance!
So happily the original problem is fixed and I no longer have that issue. However, the cold temperatures is now giving me starting problems. After it's sat a bit in the cold, 8 hours+, I go to start it and the engine turns over once, then nothing. I turned it off, wait a moment and turn it to start again. It will turn over 1, 1 and half, 2 times, then no sound at all. I turn it to off, wait another moment, then I try to start again. And wa-la starts right up. Is this a safe assumption that this is a different issue and not the battery because I'm not getting the rapid battery clicking noise when this symptom is happening? When I say I hear nothing, I mean I hear nothing going on in the engine. The radio and everything else electric pops right up. The temperatures that this really seems to be an issue has been between 15F and 35F. Anything warmer than that, it's not an issue.
As always, I appreciate everyone's help and feedback! Thanks in advance!
11-25-2013
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11-27-2013
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I have had that exact same thing happen a couple times.
One time I just held the key in the start position until it eventually started doing something and slowly turned over.
On another occasion it did crank several times before it got going.
Another time using remote start it did not start but all the electrical functioned along with what should happen during a remote start.
11-27-2013
#30
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 2007 Civic "cold" start problem
Well I can't hear crap on this laptop.
Dash stays lit up when you twist the key to crank it, and no noises at all from the starter? No heavy clunk, not even a whirrrrrrr?
A few electrical checks of the starter and wiring would be in order (gotta check while it is acting up though) but I'll guess it's a typical intermittent starter failure.
Dash stays lit up when you twist the key to crank it, and no noises at all from the starter? No heavy clunk, not even a whirrrrrrr?
A few electrical checks of the starter and wiring would be in order (gotta check while it is acting up though) but I'll guess it's a typical intermittent starter failure.
