DeepBlade

I bought a 2007 Civic EX Coupe from a Honda dealership in August of 2011, and the battery is weak now (less than 6 months later). I had the battery replaced 2 weeks ago but this fresh battery is starting to die now too... I'm very confused.

I noticed that when my car is turned off and locked, that these things are still being powered:

1) The Anti-Theft light flashes red every few seconds
2) The automatic window controls are dimly lit all the time
(see attached)

Are these what could be draining the battery? Are these normally supposed to be powered, even though the car's off and locked?

jordan1794

I know the anti-theft light is supposed to be flashing, but I've never really looked at the window controls.
To be honest though I can't really see those little things draining the battery, I think you have a problem somewhere else.

ezone

The window controls should not be lit up after the door is opened with the key out of the ignition.
You have a problem there, and it probably will not be the window switch itself.
The problem will be that the MICU is staying awake when it should go to asleep.

Can you operate the power window at any time, when it should not work?

DeepBlade

No, the windows do not roll up or down when I use the controls during this time, but the controls themselves are still lit, even after I've closed the doors and locked the doors wireless using my key fob.

This is frustrating.. Sometimes, I just want my 1997 Civic with manual windows and manual locks back...

******EDIT******* I take that back - I 'can' roll my windows up and down and even control the sunroof, when the car is off, the key is out and the car is locked. WTF!! It wasn't like this when I bought the car.

ezone

Tracking it down probably isn't going to be a rookie job. If it goes to the dealer, you want the rocket scientist to be on it, not any flunkie.


http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/hy...sitic_draw.pdf

DeepBlade

Actually.... I 'can' roll my windows up and down and even control the sunroof, when the car is off, the key is out and the car is locked. WTF!! It wasn't like this when I bought the car.

Edit2: nvm. It's like that only a few seconds after turning off the car.. Not permanently.

ezone

Actually.... I 'can' roll my windows up and down and even control the sunroof, when the car is off, the key is out and the car is locked.

That will kill the battery in a couple days.

WTF!! It wasn't like this when I bought the car.

So something broke, no big deal. Just get it fixed.

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When you open the drivers door, does the dome light come on like it should?


Are there any other electrical things that act funny?

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I hope you got a warranty. Honda Care seems to be better than most.

Remember: This is probably a job for the rocket scientist. 80% of the people that turn wrenches are completely lost when wires get involved.

DeepBlade

Yes thankfully I have the Honda Plus warranty (I'm guessing its called Honda Plus in Canada and Honda Care in the US?) - though I had to pay for it, cause the dealer said the mileage was too high for him to include it in the car price.

I take it back - I can only rolls my windows up and down a few seconds after turning off and locking the car.

Yes, when I open the driver door light, the dome lights (front and back) do come on

As for other electrical things acting funny- yes, the backlight on the car stereo deck flickered once in a while a few months back. It doesn't do that anymore though... I've told my Honda dealership about it several times already, during occasional visits. They don't do anything...... I get the impression that they'll fix something only if something breaks.

ezone

Yes thankfully I have the Honda Plus warranty (I'm guessing its called Honda Plus in Canada and Honda Care in the US?) - though I had to pay for it, cause the dealer said the mileage was too high for him to include it in the car price.

No idea if they are the same, but I'd guess so.

I take it back - I can only rolls my windows up and down a few seconds after turning off and locking the car.

You real positive about that?
Maybe this is an intermittent problem?

The light goes out when the windows are no longer enabled (normally). Maybe you should look into this part a little more accurately, see if it is on or off when the windows don't work.

It takes a certain amount of time before they turn off after turning the key off, if you don't open the door.
The windows should turn off immediately when the drivers door is opened.


Maybe this isn't a problem at all.




Yes, when I open the driver door light, the dome lights (front and back) do come on

ok

yes, the backlight on the car stereo deck flickered once in a while a few months back. It doesn't do that anymore though..

So it isn't broken now.


. I've told my Honda dealership about it several times already, during occasional visits. They don't do anything...... I get the impression that they'll fix something only if something breaks.

Of course they won't do anything. It is not broken when they see it. All faults MUST be proven. If it can't be proven, there is nothing we can do. When we deal with (factory) warranty, the parts are oftentimes called for inspection. If the part is NOT bad, the claim is rejected.



Other thoughts:

Bad new battery? Got warranty on it?

Something else causing a drain on the battery?
Use an ammeter to prove it before saying it is the cars fault. Dark current should be below 50mA after 20 minutes, and I usually see under 30mA when I check them.

AC clutch relays stick on, and can be intermittent.

EX-Dave

To do a little trouble shooting, try other accessories that "should not work" when the ignition key is still in your pocket. It might not be a single circuit that is acting up. Is the fuse box easy to reach? In the mean time, to save your battery you might need to pull a select fuse when you aren't driving around. If you have the electric door locks, you might need to use that door key more often.

Could disconnecting the battery for like 20-minutes kind of re-boot things?

Let us know how you do. You will not be the only one!

DeepBlade

Sure thing - I'm going to bring to to the Honda dealership in a few weeks. I'll definitely update this thread on how things go. Thanks!

DeepBlade

OK, so the dealer said that it was caused by the floor wiring - At the same time I had this battery draining issue, I also had another issue where the SRS airbag light was on.

I brought it into the dealer and he said the whole floor wiring harness needs to be replaced.... It was 12 hours of labour at $110/hr..... = $1320 + 13% tax (in Canada) - not covered by my Honda Plus Extended Warranty for Pre-Owned vehicles. The Honda Service Bulletin is IV-3-10: SRS Indicator is on with DTC 32-10 and the service bulletin says the remedy is to replace for floor wiring harness.

Does that sound plausible? That something wrong in the floor wiring could cause the battery to drain even when the car is off?

ezone

The bulletin in question:
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/hy..._civic_srs.pdf
(If you really are going to try this, there is a newer version of this document that has updated part numbers)

TSB 10-001 addresses the harness replacement, and it is ONLY for the SRS light being on with a certain code stored. I have done exactly one of those, and the owner had called the 1-800 number and got customer assistance involved. (I doubt the customer paid full price for the repair.)

The floor harness does not address anything with killing a battery.

They apparently didn't diagnose the battery killing problem, or the problem wasn't present when they looked at it. (If they bothered to look at all.)


A sharp person with an ammeter that can read milliamps will be able to tell if there is excessive drain on the battery in a short time (IF it is acting up when checked). In fact, Honda sent us an inductive ammeter as part of the special tools package just a few years ago. All your dealer needs is someone that can operate it.


Look and see if the AC compressor is engaged and running when it shouldn't be.


Edit: 12 hours for the floor harness is a bit high IMO. Read the bulletin linked. It gives the "hours" that warranty pays for, and it is customary for "customer pay" labor to be approx 50% higher than warranty rate. So somewhere around 7-8 hours labor would be expected and reasonable at the shop I work in.

DeepBlade

Doing the repair work myself was too daunting so I paid for the repair .. So expensive..

OK ya, that's what I figured - that the battery draining issue shouldn't have to do with the floor wiring harness issue.

As for 12 hours of labour (says the Honda dealer) vs 5 hours of labour (says the document) for replacing the floor wiring harness - I noticed that, but when I called 2 other Honda dealers and asked them about this, they said that 12 hours sounds normal for that specifically replacing the floor wiring harness =/ . Honda Canada Warranty basically said: "it's not covered by the warranty, but we'll pay for the part out of goodwill ($400) but you'll have to pay for labour: $1320 + tax"

In the end, the dealer said there's nothing they found wrong with the battery, but they suspected it was caused by/related to the floor wiring issue.. and to keep out an eye out for the battery issue

ezone

I can tell you that the harness is a lot of work... the seats, carpet, and lower trims all around the interior come out. It's not overly difficult, but it is time consuming and somewhat tedious work. But I love wiring.
IIRC there is wiring under the car too, like ABS and fuel tank/evap solenoids involved.

I wish I could have gotten 12 hours to do it.
Since customer assistance was involved, I think I got only the warranty rate to do the job.
Maybe I should recommend double or triple warranty rates for customers?

lazlong

Really!? I took all that stuff out, replaced the carpet, then put it all back in in like 2 hours. Shouldn't take more than another couple of hours to replace the wiring harness. 7-8 flag hours sounds about right.

MonKy

Might be stating the obvious n u probably checked already.. but do u have any cell phone/gps chargers plugged in but not connected to the actual device

sicario

wow mine did the same thing just drained out i ended up replacing a great deal of it for all u that have the problem of lights staying on u need a toggle switch that kills the feed going to the car just remove the dash board clock or find a alternative power source or route

pl747

My daughter's 2006 Civic has been running the battery down overnight, too. I traced it to fuse #23, a 10 amp fuse. That circuit had a 2 or 3 amp draw for maybe a minute or so after killing the car. Then that circuit kept a .25 amp draw. I pulled the fuse and it has started ever since. The fuse cover says that is backup lights but it also killed the radio. So I don't know. Honda's fusing ledgend is confusing. The air conditioner is not kicking in but I could not find a fuse anywhere for it, under the hood or under the dash. And is has a little over 100# on the high and low side static so it has plenty of charge.

ezone

Multiple issues.
There are lots of electrical controls that operate the AC, and anything is possible. Yes, 100 PSI static pressure is plenty to make the clutch kick in and at least TRY to operate the system.


You really need to shut the car off and pull the keys out, let it sit untouched for at least 15 minutes to allow all of the control units to go to "sleep" before taking current drain readings. I usually see 15-30mA on these when everything is proper.

HTH

Fauxtog

I found this site when I was researching the issue I am having with the 06 Si I own. I noticed my battery draining and would be dead if I didn't drive it every day. I wracked my brain trying to figure it out, and finally took it to a shop to diagnosis what the problem was. Turns out it was the passenger window switch shorting out and keeping the MICU alive. The switch was still in working order and didn't display any symptoms of being the culprit, but I let it go for months like this until breaking down and taking it to experts.
This probably isn't your problem, and you probably already fixed it...but wanted to post if someone was in my shoes and was scouring the internet.

I should have taken the car to a shop specializing in electrical issues right from the beginning knowing electrical gremlins are difficult to trace sometimes.