Unevolved

There's some saying about fools and their money, isn't there?

If you think you can solve the energy crisis and solve all the problems associated with Hydrogen gas as a fuel before multitudes of corporate-backed engineers, more power to you. Just out of curiosity, what kind of formal education do you have?

For those of you not intimately familiar with the explosive power of Hydrogen gas relative to Oxygen, take a look at this video I took in my Chemistry class from my cell phone. The three balloons are filled with equal amounts of oxygen, hydrogen, and a mixture of the two, in that order. The giant fireball from the pure H2 and the shotgun-loud blast from the H2 and O2 mixture relative to the "pop" from the O2 mixture should give you a feel for what extreme forces the engine would be under. You think forced induction is hard on engines?

booba5185

Finally! great minds think alike, have some rep my intelligent friend.

civicsclass

HHO generators are now being touted as a cure for gasoline costs etc. There is a guy on the web named Ozzie Freedom. Google him and check out his site for more info and to see if you want this type of set up....he looks legit and all info is "free" if you buy a couple of his books ($100) that tell ya how to build his devices. And yes Ozzie Freedom is his name. No endorsement here just relaying info

Envy

iTrader: (1)

all the noobs joining just for this thread!?!?!

booba5185

um, i'm not a noob i just didn't see the thread back then lol then someone revived it

Unevolved

Rep returned, thank you gentlemen.

neukin

Well just wanted to give some credit to his hho thing.. iv been building/prototyping a system for cars for about 8 months and so far on a turbo b16 92 hatch with back to back 100mile runs i went from 28mpg to 37.4mpg at about 2800-3000rpm all highway. I hit a few exit ramps so i could have got better gas mileage but i had to haha i gets boring just driving for a test... My system doesnt pump out a ton of gas but iv measured 3L per min. Good luck

hhocivic

I am in the process of working the bugs out of my hho civic. As of now it appears to have about an 6mpg increase. I was a little skeptical, but after doing a little research I think its plausible. My grandfather ran his car on hydrogen back in the 60's and was pulling 81 mpg. I've installed the hho generator as well as a map enhancer, so I can work it myself. There are still quite a bit I can experiment with..2 hoses, more electrolyte, charged water and so on. The government has a 300 or so mpg carb that was invented. Why dont they run those on the cars today? Because rich suckers in the oil industry would lose out! Why is it there are so many people thats getting success whether great or small, if this didn't work. Either all of them are in it just for the fame, or they are really getting success. Only one way to find out!

Unevolved

If you're big into this technology, can you tell me why they don't use correct chemical nomenclature or standard naming protocols. HHO? Really?

You can't explain that away as a "conspiracy."

And how about some facts on this 300 mpg carburetor you claim. Never heard of it. Somehow I doubt it's being kept down by the man.

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

christmaspie

Um, I'm gonna go with a complete lack of understanding regarding chemistry and/or physics.

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

You forgot "conspiracy theorists"

Jza

I hear since plastic is a petroleum by product, putting zip lock bags in your gas tank, they melt into fuel. It's science guys.

Unevolved

http://www.phact.org/e/dennis27.htm

Keet

I wanted to start my own thread, but hey I did a "search" :P and I want to turn this thing around... (LOL people can ignore the first 4 pages of non-intelligent ramblings).

Yes, I'm hijacking another thread. Ok I hear what Boggie1688 is trying to get across, and I'm with him, but I'd never hack my civic up with some questionable product which effects the engine.

There's gonna be a fuel revolution one of these days, and I don't know how many automobiles there are on this planet but I'm pretty sure we're not just gonna throw them all in the junkyard when hydrogen technology becomes availbable. What I REALLY want to discuss is the feasability of adapting hydrogen to our Civics.

For a bit of background, this was in the news a few days ago but made very little headlines, I HIGHLY recommend you watch it, it's only 1:21minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIk0JH4khb8

and if you have time this is old news but makes you really wonder about why we're still burning oil, oops I mean gasoline:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h75_TGiwg78
These videos have totally changed my way of thinking.

Ok, let's ASSUME... HYPOTHETICALLY here, that there's a magic water box that goes in our trunks, uses a bit of electricty and produces a random supply of hydrogen to (help) fuel our cars... (whether we make it, buy it from some company, or have it retro-fitted by Honda themsevles, doesn't matter).

The question is, can our engines be made to work with hydrogen, and if so then what would we need to do?

I imagine the hydrogen would follow the fuel line from the trunk, but this is as far as I figured. Some of you NOS experts can help. I'm PRETTY sure we'd need a new ECU which uses data from a sensor on a little hydrogen regulator, because the hydrogen levels might vary depending on the production, water levels, starting up, frozen, etc. I HIGHLY doubt it can just be fed in. Does ECU control valve timing? One major problem is that hydrogen combusts much faster than gasoline and I think this would F-up the pistons/valves/etc.

Also, I don't imagine this is a problem but it's worth noting there'd probably be water vapor being expelled into our exhaust system.

Anyways, I'm done my rant, but I'm really hoping some smart people can contribute to this and maybe we could be readyf or this technology.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

there is water vapor being expelled in the exhaust right now in a stock car! byproduct of the catalytic reactions. technically yeah it can work if you adjust the map sensor and o2 sensor because the sensor will not be able to see that the car is running more efficient off the hydrogen and will still be dumping fuel in. the only reason the generator would not work is if you install it and dont do any other mods.

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan:

http://uk.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561

colourwolf

So, the H2O to H2 convertor is powered by a car battary, now that make more sence. so you need to charge the battary and fill up water.

Keet

Thanks, thats straight from the source. It was actually my first linked video but on youTube.

Ofcourse it's just an example of what I believe can be done, except this little puppy doesn't burn the hydrogen, it converts it to electricty... kinda redundant if you ask me. We need to adapt the hydrogen technology to current automobiles rather than manufacture new ones. I think it'll be up to the individual to do it because no one else would gain from it.

I figure we'd still need gas, but just very little of it, maybe mostly for starting up. They'd still make new cars and we'd still need some gas stations around but we wouldn't have to depend on it so much and we wouldn't pollute nearly as much either. We'd cut our dependance on the middle east for their oil. I mean when a paper mill shuts down cuz the world is changing do you think anyone is crying for all the workers that lost their jobs? Pfft, so why should we cry about it just cuz we stopped sucking so hard at the tit of big oil? I say too bad if you're the guy with a big chainsaw in the amazon and they tell you they don't need you anymore, same thing. Times change and we should keep up. Oh, what? Is free energy too selfish of us? The Dutch have been raping free energy for centuries, they call them windmills, and nobody gives them a hard time.

Anyways, I'm sure we all feel the same. I really was hoping to avoid political/economic/conspiracy theory rants but I couldn't help myself, it's really been bugging me how we've been suckered for so long.

Now lets get back to the technicalities of such a conversion.

Keet

So the ECU would lower gas as more hydrogen becomes available, but it also needs to adjust the valve timing for this type of combustion, would our vtec actually help? I'll need to look up the specifics... I believe the spark ignition would need to be delayed with a more hydrogen-enriched combustion. Also, where exactly would a hydrogen line go? It's a gas which floats, so it should be sealed.

Unevolved

Have you looked into the specifics that would be associated with this? From what I know from chemistry, I think there are factors vastly more complicated than simply breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen. I agree, it's an interesting concept to be sure. But I think it's vastly more complicated than simply injecting pure hydrogen into the combustion chamber, regardless of ignition retardation.

I'd be worried about head lift injecting something as volatile as pure hydrogen into the combustion. Even if you could limit it to an incredible finite amount, I seriously doubt it'll be good for the engine. I have a feeling you're going to turn your engine into a hand grenade.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

alot of cars use it daily and report a much quieter engine. but thats the thing, nobody really knows whats happening in there. and no if you just hook the device up, the ecu is not gonna magically correct everything and use less gas. its not that good. you do need to adjust a variety of components like map and o2 sensors, and ignition timing.

wheelspinLX

Wow I really hate the term free energy. Wind is powered by the Sun and technically the Sun is a resource that will someday be gone. So wind although good and you could call it cheap energy is still not "free." As a matter of fact the sun is what has given the earth pretty much all of it's energy for as long as the earth has existed. Even oil is ancient sun energy stored underground.

Energy in is = or > energy out, period end of story.

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

Fortunately, you don't have authority over the truth. Nor does anyone else. It's zealots like you who frothed at the mouth and declared heresy when it was thought the Earth was round.

reddawnman

Finally, someone who has taken a basic ****ing physics class.

Repeat after me:

Perpetual motion is bullshit
free energy is bullshit
in this form, HHO is bullshit

You are burning gasoline to run the alternator and charge the battery and create a different kind of gas with a lower energy density. period. that hydrogen gas costs MORE per unit of energy than the petroleum you burned to make it in the first place.

The only way to make this economical is to set up a home unit run off the electrical grid (Or solar, wind, tides, human waste, hippie bongwater, whatever) that will generate hydrogen and oxygen in a significant enough quantity to be stored in the car somewhere, THEN added to the fuel / air mixture so that the H2 cost is about what electrical power costs and is cheaper than petroleum to such an extent that it will pay for the additional capital investments needed to support its use.

Then make sure that the H2/O2 mixture isn't injected in great enough quantities to cause corrosion, and maybe you have something.

Or, you do what everyone else working with hydrogen does and build a fuel cell to turn electric motors which are vastly more efficient than IC Engines.

Unevolved

Look, man. You're trying to say one of the fundamental laws of physics is bullshit. Even on the level of quantum mechanics and general relativity, energy can not be created or destroyed. You can simply use it as efficiently as possible, but there are no "hacks" for reality. Perhaps you've been playing too many video games.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the first law of thermodynamics, or just get an education.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i remember back in 2001, there were pages of threads about how theres no possible way to turbo a d17. it wont work, there is no way to tune it, theres no room for the manifold, it would blow up the intake blah. then a few years later, many people have it. the earth used to be flat, and everyone accepted that as truth because someone told them to. it sounds stupid now, because someone else challenged the idea. what makes you think in 2008 we have suddenly discovered the way the universe works? wtf. we are still PRIMITIVE in every respect i dont care what anyone says. all we can do is travel to the moon on century old rocket fuels made of basic elements. we dont understand how anything works. and im sure 100-200 yrs from now, MANY of the "theories" that are accepted today will be trashed and people are gonna be laughing back at how stupid we were to drive a car that only gets 10 mpg for no reason.

Unevolved

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. We're talking about basic elements of physics. Sure, you can play the Copernicus card, but I really don't think that's relevant here. Science has progressed to the point that we're not going to overturn our own laws. The law of conservation of energy is very widely accepted as truth.

Cleft_Asunder

iTrader: (1)

I believe it is a valid comparison, since his point was to represent how popular opinion regarding a subject means nil. And I bring up the Chinese proverb again: "The person that says it cannot be done, shouldn't interupt the person doing it."

If you think science is at some height of knowledge, and only refinement is necessary, you're not paying attention. Science and spirituality (not religion) are merging right now to fill the gaps in one-another, and finally we have a real understanding of how the multiverse works. And we realize that what we know isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

wheelspinLX

Again when you prove it wrong I'm all on board. The problem is these laws have proven correct in the lab. Right now you are just someone gullible who gets really excited over every gimmick you see on the internet.

P.S. these scientists that were persecuted in the past... In the end time and science proved them right. They came up with some of the concepts that you would like to throw out on a whim.