ex2k3

friendly warning, you are about to get owned. put on a flame suit.

Jrfish007

iTrader: (3)

Okay, I really don't have time to get into great detail right now with reaction rates and all that right now. But I will say 1 yr oci is fine you are using the proper oil (assuming proper millage and all that). Maybe you really didn't read my posts or something but my 6 month oci was for inexpenisive dino oil. Certianly if you use redline or something like that, it can go for longer, but typical dino oil does not last 2 years in your engine. You appear to impling that $0.99 per quart Kmart blue light special oil can go over 1 year in a car, I just don't believe that. You have to have a synthetic oil to do that.


I getting ready to go on vaccation and really don't want to spend 2 hours setting here looking up oxidation rates and all this other crap to prove you wrong. SO I'm just sticking with what I said earlier, dino oil goes for 6 months unless other wise noted by the manufactures. I would dare you to put up on bob's oil that dino oil can go 2 years in a car. It MIGHT if the car is NEVER ran, but then you should be putting other fluids in it.

You can read as much on forums as you want, but text books are always better. They start and finish and complete ideas and concepts that are often left out on forums, regardless if it's this one or bob's. If you really want to chalenge me, start quoting text books, those are creditable. I'm not saying the guy/gals at bob's aren't creditable, but it is very hard to convey a complete concept on a forum.

ctx66

After re-reading this thread, you clearly state that oil is only good for 6 months. you never once mention dino specifically.

you dont know me, you dont know anything about my knowledge of motor oil.

Jrfish007

iTrader: (3)

SOME synthetic CAN go longer than 6 months, some can not. In my personal experience, some synthetics can last 1 year, I have not and never will try a 2 yr oci. However not all synthetic are made equally, different classes or stocks, different additives make different properties. GENERALLY speaking, if you are going to try and make a 1 year oci, you will be spending upwards of $5 a quart for a better oil. You can change your oil every 6 months with oil that is less than $2 per quart, which is cheaper? AND what happens if say you get a bad tank of gas (happens often here in Ohio). Let say you live in Ohio, you probably don't know this (I would expect most people to know this) but Ohio has a problem with high sulfur fuel, because wile we have regulations agianst high sulfur fuel, there is nothing law set up to check the sulfur content or laws to punish the oil companies for giving it to us. You might know sulfur is VERY bad for oil, changes the pH very fast and attacks the phosphates often used to stabilizes oil and prevent oxidation. So lets say you get one of these crappy tanks of gas just after you change your oil, and lets say you use normal M1 and plan on letting it go for 1 yr and 10,000 miles. But the sulfur from the intial tank of gas has shortened the life of the oil drastically, and now it is only good for about 9 months. (Sulfur attacks the oil regardless if the engine is running or not). But you leave the oil in for 1 year, and loose valuable protection. See my point yet? Reasons like this are why the manufactures say 6 months. When the oil companies publish the life expectancy of their oil on the bottle, they take thing like this into consideration and do extensive testing to see how long it will live in these harsher than ideal enviroments. Certianly, if this was a perfect world the oil would last much longer, but to say that oil goes longer than what the manufacture says it does, is a bold claim and you better have some substanial evidence to prove that it will last longer in the type of enviroment I just described and many others I can't even think of. And a few peoples uoa won't cut it for me, I'm sure you some engines are more friendly than other to the oil, Honda's are generally pretty good with oil. But still, even if there is a 1% chance of someone being in the situation I desribed, do you want to be reasponsible for that person destroying their engine? I don't.

That being said my overall point still stands that you are going to be paying quite a bit of money to get these oils that can last a year or more. The cheapest that comes to my head is M1 extended life that runs around $5.5 a quart, there maybe others that are cheaper, but I can't think of them at the moment. I know most M1 states it is only good for 6 months, if you want to go beyond that, it is up to you and you are doing so at your own risk. But I am not comfortable telling people that it's fine to go 1 yr on an oil that may only last 6 months without knowing the exact conditions that they have (i.e. uoa results). I still maintain that it is better to change your oil more frequently with a cheaper dino oil than longer oci with an expensive synthetic. Most people I know in the business (which know far more than me) agree.

Lastly, I haven't said it in this thread yet, but I have said it many times, if you want to know how much life you can get out of your oil, I can only tell you what the manufacture tells you and they just make a broad generallization. You MUST get your oil tested to know the answer. Oil testing is the only way to know for sure what the state of your oil is when you changed it. Doesn't matter what I say, what CTX66 says or what the people at Bobs say, oil testing is the only way because everybodys car/habits are different.


Now what is your point, what are you tring to say here, what are you arguing, because so far I have just stated what I have said many time already in various threads through out this forum that most people here have already heard. And frankly my time is running low.

Sorry if I don't reaspond for a few days, I may not get online agian untill after I come back.

ctx66

I agree that there are many variables and that synthetics are not all equal. I also agree that is better safe than sorry to to go 6 months at the max on dino. Not to mention, if someone doesnt drive much or only takes very short trips, they dont get the engine up to operating temp long enough to evaporate any condensation in the oil.

You certainly get a thumbs up from me for effort and defending your stance. My point is that i dont think its right to say that oil only lasts 6 months. I see a lot of bad information being thrown around by members who appear to be very well respected and that bothers me. Because people who dont know any better will listen to them. I dont think we'll agree on how long you can run oil, so i think im done with this thread.

Enjoy your vacation, and i apologize if i have come across as a jerk.

zen_master

iTrader: (6)

bottom line......

if you change your oil and oil filter every 3 months or 3000 miles, synthetic or dino will be just fine.

and to think logically about the blend oil (dino+synthethic), switching back-forward from dino to synthetic shouldn't have any adversed effect to your car.....

but again, your car is your baby...it's up to you for whatever you want to do with it.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

lol i think he forgot what jrfish does for a living.

ctx66

i dont care what he does for a living. if you all are so confident, just make a post on bobistheoilguy asking how long oil can last. simple as that. we'll see what the long time respected members there have to say.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i thought you didnt believe anyone who posts on the internet. what says that they know any more than a chemical/thermodynamic engineer does. Jrfish is right about one thing, get an oil analysis done. then you'll know for sure what you need to do for your own car and not what other people tell you.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

all ya'll stop being so argumentative. You guys can debate without being rude.

Oil can last longer than 6 months depending on the conditions, type, miles etc. Dino - I wouldn't go longer than 6 months, but I have been running full Amsoil synthetic in my wife's car for almost 10k now and it has been longer than 6 months with no problems.

Now if you guys would like, I can get it tested to see the outcome. I will change it in approximately 2k miles at 25k and it will be a little over a year on that oil. It is an unmodded nissan sentra.

Jrfish, can you provide me info on how to get it tested and we can shed more light on this matter.

Jrfish007

iTrader: (3)

Thank, it was a nice vaccation, except my new civic's power window came off track on the drivers door, so I couldn't put my window down, makes paying toll boths a real pain lol

Anyway, no, I don't think you are being a jerk. One major problem with the internet is that I and others who think and know one thing, can not see if others understand what we are saying or not. I tend to read facial expression quite a bit and I can't do that ehar. As a result I can end up makinf a statement that appears to be clear to me, but not everyone understands. Also, on the internet, you tend not get the complete story, often I just through out a piece of info here and there because I don't want to write a book for every post and sometimes important details get left out.

As for the oi issue, my point was that for a stock civic, the most cost effect thing I've found is to just change the oil often (6 month 4,000-5,000 miles) with s decent dino oil. MOST synthetics can not go above the 6 month range, some can, but they are generally pretty costly. Maybe some one would feel better going on high end oils for a very long time, and that's fine for them, point is just don't go longer than the manufature says to. But, yes some do last longer than 6 months, like I said I use M1 exteneded life in my towing truck in 1 year intervals.

This is one of the more costly oils I was talking about that can go longer than 6 months. This might work for some people, but in Ohio with the higher sulfur gas it's a bad idea.

Anyway, I use this place,
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

You can order a free kit from them here,
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

And then fill the little container with oil and send it back to them. It's $20 for a standard oil analysis and $10 more for a TBN, which you might want to do since you are going 25k between oil changes. They will help you interperate anything on the report.

Certianly Amsoil is a good oil that is quite costly, and as I mentioned earlyier, if you drive 25k a year, synthetic may not be a bad idea at all. I think there some reports floating around the net of Amsoil, but it's always good to see how it does in your specific car.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

Well it be only 10k on the oil. She drives about 7-8k miles a year. So why not do once a year oil change? Saves me money!

for that test kit, you just order the kit, mail it in, and they will send you the analysis for $20?

http://www.amsoil.com/testimonials/409000.aspx over 400k on this oil change!

Jrfish007

iTrader: (3)

Sometimes it can be cheaper to change the oil once a year, sometime it's not, depends on the unique situation. As for sacing money, that's subjective to which oil your using. I know my typical oil change on a civic costs me about $11-12 with oil filter, I think Amsoil is $6-7 quart. I don't think the saving of doing it either way is really going to make a difference to anybody, but sometimes it is more convient to only have to worry about it once year.

Yeah, just order the free kit, fill a little bottle with used oil (be careful about this part though, they give a detailed way to collect the oil to avoid contamination), and send it in with $20 and they give you an analysis. They aren't exact quick with the analysis part though, some times it takes a while.

Yeah, but that truck was a diesle, infact it was a Mack V8 diesel. Diesel engines are very easy on oil becuase most of them ruun around 1,250-1,500 RPM and also use HUGE amount of oil. It is almost standard to go about 20,000 miles between oil changes on large trucks. But that is still impressive.